Gay Muslims—the Elephants in the (Prayer) Room


http://www.flickr.com/photos/ledr/3633632364/in/photostream/WebbStaff Note I: This is a controversial issue with varying perspectives. Our guest author is expressing one perspective; we encourage others to respectfully discuss their own perspective in the comments or submit your thoughts as a guest piece. This article is meant to open up a discussion on this issue, rather than be a definitive stance on homosexuality.

WebbStaff Note II: Comments have been closed on this post. We encourage positive and fruitful discussions, which we feel has already taken place in the comments of this article.

By Mohammed Yusuf

Muslims, I find, tend to be quite good at avoiding open discussions about deeply personal matters affecting our communities. The problem is, it is exactly this attitude that leads to the circulation of myths and the subsequent worsening of the original matter. Muslim communities tend to treat such deeply personal matters as elephants in the room. One such elephant is, of course, homosexuality—that someone who is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender can also be a devout Muslim.

I am a student at a British university. I have not come out as homosexual and I happen to be quite active with my Islamic Society (ISoc) on campus. When I’m in the company of other students in the ISoc, I do hear a few “gay jokes” being made (although this is a wider societal problem too). In relation to these so-called jokes, do you think I enjoy that these jokes are essentially about someone like me? To those who make these jokes, given that no one has their sexual orientation stamped on their forehead, you’ve most probably already prayed alongside a homosexual without realizing. Let me ask you, was there anything ‘lesser’ about these people?

To those who have a conservative attitude towards homosexuals, given the homophobic rhetoric, attacks and social exclusion that a homosexual often has to put up with, do you genuinely believe that someone like me would have actively chosen to be gay rather than straight?

The number of times I have previously wished that I wasn’t homosexual…but that’s the whole point: you cannot choose to be homosexual (to put it another way, how many of you actively chose to have feelings for the opposite sex rather than the same sex?)

Homosexuality isn’t a choice. Muslim communities should stop sweeping the topic under the carpet and start providing the right kind of support and advice.

For starters, does your local mosque provide a confidential online or drop-in advice service? (Not a service run by a traditional-minded scholar who can barely speak English, but by someone who is fully aware of the contemporary environment, is a good communicator, and someone young people can relate to.) Does the Islamic Society at your university only ever discuss topics such as perfecting your prayers and how you can do charity? Or does it openly acknowledge that university is a time when you may have a whole range of personal issues, and therefore advertises suitable welfare services? Do our community leaders shun discussion of very personal problems or do they lead the way in acknowledging that personal problems do exist, and create initiatives to tackle these problems in an effective and Islamic way?

Ask yourself each of those questions and you will see that as a community we need to be doing far more to support the homosexuals among us.

Fortunately, I met an extremely knowledgeable Muslim who’d given a few talks at my university. I got to know this person, their open-minded nature, and knew I could approach them to discuss my homosexuality. The day we met up and I told them, it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I felt like I no longer had to struggle on my own but could talk to somebody if I needed to. I then told a couple of my closest friends at university who I also knew I could trust. One of them afterwards gave me a hug, and that meant the world—knowing that this person wasn’t going to treat me any differently.

I’m now at a stage where being homosexual no longer bothers me as it once did, and I can now focus on the more important things in life. I have the odd struggle, but I guess sexuality just isn’t a straightforward thing. Having been through all the mental anguish though, I do feel for those who are on their own right now, unable to turn to anyone for advice and support. If you’re a Muslim struggling with your sexuality, I’m not going to offer you some generic advice as some scholars might, and then avoid your actual concerns altogether. I really wish I could point you in the right direction—but that’s part of the point of this article, that the Muslim community needs to do more to support those of us who are homosexual and Muslim.

I will say, though, that you’re definitely not alone. There is an Islamic viewpoint that says the having of same-sex feelings is itself no sin. And contrary to how others may make you feel, you’re no less of a human being or a good Muslim. I wish you all the best, and really hope you find the support you need.

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291 Comments

  1. Ahmed OKeeffe says:

    ASA,
    I am grateful this topic here, not because I share the author’s problem, but because I sympathize with the loneliness he must feel; such a thing can drive people away from Islam and that is to be discouraged. I am glad, however, the post and the site hasn’t followed the trendy pattern lately amongst certain muslims of condoning homosexuality. May Allah make things easy for the homosexual muslims, keep them all chaste, and guide them to turn to him in repentance. May Allah reward the site and staff for having the courage to address the issue.

    • Gibran says:

      wa alaykumusalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

      You are mistaken if they can be still considered Muslim after justifying same-sex. Listen to that video of Yusuf Qaradawi.

      Whoever declares a widely known haram thing to be halal is a disbeliever. One cannot just distort/reject certain ayat of the Quran!

      “May Allah make things easy for the homosexual muslims, keep them all chaste, and guide them to turn to him in repentance.”

      • Noor Mendez says:

        Salaams …

        “There is an Islamic viewpoint that says the having of same-sex feelings is itself no sin.”

        Nobody said anything about justifying same sex relationships. Nobody claimed homosexuality was halal.

        All the article states is that homosexual inclinations are not a choice, any more than inclinations for pork over chicken. The sin is in choosing to ACT on those inclinations. I think bacon is yummy … that doesn’t mean I’m a sinner. If I EAT bacon, that’s a problem … in the same way, having an inclination towards the same sex is not in itself a sin.

        Gibran, I’m sure you have fasted before during the month of Ramadan. I’m sure you have felt that feeling of desiring something that you couldn’t have, I know you have felt that rumbling in your tummy in the final hours of your fast and I know you have caught yourself imagining what you would break your fast with. In these hours you definitely DESIRE food but you do not choose to eat, therefore you have not sinned.

        I understand that you are hungry towards the end of your fast but I would not excuse you for breaking it. In the same way, Mohammed Yusuf is asking not to be excused but merely understood. Think of Mohammed Yusuf’s struggle as a fast, only there is no iftaar. Imagine, spending the rest of your life “hungry”. Imagine if it was the opposite sex that was forbidden to you … how hard would that be? Wouldn’t every day be a struggle? Wouldn’t you want for your fellow Muslim brothers/sisters to be supportive and understanding?

        • Hyde says:

          No not really…why is that so many sisters support this sort of abnormality ? Why are sisters making excuses ? To compare with brother’s Gibran’s fast was tad too much, eh ?

        • Suzanne says:

          Noor, Well said!!

        • Shafiqah says:

          Well said Noor.

          I desire many things that are not halal… but for the love of Allah (SWT) – this is a part of what makes me human.

          To aspire to please Allah (SWT) and my community – that is what makes me Muslim.

          To feel a desire, and choose the right path over the haram. This is why Allah (SWT) gave us free will.

          My heart goes to any brother of sister suffering from desires which conflict with their beliefs.

          My respect goes to the brothers and sisters who respect and support on another.

  2. Zaman says:

    As Salamu Alaykum. This entire post is such a Hope for me. That there is somebody out there who knows how it feals, who knows the weight I carry, who knows the pain, the hurt, the cries, the screams, the silences.. who knows how it feels to stand before Allah day and night and asking for help.. to secretly say “ameen” to the dua’s made in the mosque.. to hope that one day, that day, when Allah will be right in front, HE will forgive and HE will understand what I was going through. Being homosexual and being a Muslim is tough – so very tough. And the only thing that can heal me is meeting Allah subhan wa ta’ala, hearing HIM say me that it is over, my struggle is finished and I’m not relieved.

    I don’t even remember what was my age when I was sexually abused by a guy. He was finishing up before I could realize what was he doing down there, flashbacks are what I have got now. He took away the control of myself, my situation and the body that I own. “This will feel so good” sounded nice to those little ears. “This is normal, do not panic” – yeah but I was not being protected, I was being abused. He broke me and my 23 years of silence is now breaking. Even though his hands are not physically there any more, they are still there! So em I stained? Know that I did not ask for it. Now you judge me? Okay, you believe me? Ahaan, I’m less of a man right? So you have questions, about my sexuality? You still want to ask me if I was ‘Sodomized’?

    I kept this to myself since years and now I really feel like what most of us call it “coming out”. All this is because I feel I have seen that person street side nearby my home last week and everything, every inch of that incident in my life came before my eyes. I tried stopping by however was not able to chase him. If I ever get a chance to speak to him, the only thing I would ask him for is to give me my child hood. Back to me – in these very hands that I kept digging in concrete since years trying to find out what’s wrong with me! And I returned empty handed. I want to look into his eyes. The same very eyes that filled fear in me.

    It’s cold. Too cold, sometimes. I mostly feel like crying my heart out, screaming at the top of my lungs or simply giving a hug.

    Sharing it here because hopefully I’ll find out I’m not alone and I’m not an alien in this world of amusements. And I’m not diseased, neither I will pass on this ‘infection’. Remember that I stand next to you in your prayers, my silent “ameens” joins the echo of your ameens too, there are many like me than you may think. And when you are reading this, I might be screaming inside four walls of a room but silently so that my voice could not be heard. O Allah subhan! Heal me!!!

    • Gibran says:

      wa alaykumusalam wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuh

      You can take it all back from him on Yawm al Qiyamah.
      Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Muhammad bin `Aqil heard Jabir bin `Abdullah say, “I was told about a Hadith which a man heard from the Prophet , so I bought a camel and put my saddle on it, then I traveled on it for a month until I came to Ash-Sham, where `Abdullah bin Unays was. I said to the doorkeeper, `Tell him that Jabir is at the door.’ He said, `Jabir bin `Abdullah’ I said, `Yes.’ So he came out, still putting his garment on, and embraced me, and I embraced him, and said: `I heard a Hadith narrated by you, that you heard from the Messenger of Allah about reciprocal punishments. I was afraid that you or I would die before I could hear it.’ He said, `I heard the Messenger of Allah say:

      «يَحْشُرُ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ النَّاسَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ أَوْ قَالَ: الْعِبَادَ عُرَاةً غُرْلًا بُهْمًا»

      (Allah will gather the people — or His servants — on the Day of Resurrection, naked, uncircumcised and Buhman.) I asked, `What is Buhman’ He said,

      لَيْسَ مَعَهُمْ شَيْءٌ، ثُمَّ يُنَادِيهِمْ بِصَوْتٍ يَسْمَعُهُ مَنْ بَعُدَ كَمَا يَسْمَعُهُ مَنْ قَرُبَ: أَنَا الْمَلِكُ، أَنَا الدَّيَّانُ لَا يَنْبَغِي لِأَحَدٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّارِ أَنْ يَدْخُلَ النَّارَ وَلَهُ عِنْدَ أَحَدٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ حَقٌّ حَتَّى أُقِصَّهُ مِنْهُ، وَلَا يَنْبَغِي لِأَحَدٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ أَنْ يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ وَلَهُ عِنْدَ رَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّارِ حَقٌّ حَتَّى أُقِصَّهُ مِنْهُ حَتَّى اللَّطْمَة»

      (They will have nothing with them. Then a voice will call out to them that will be heard by those far away just as easily as it will be heard by those near: “I am the Sovereign, I am the Judge. None of the people of Hell should enter Hell if he is owed something by one of the people of Paradise, until I have settled the matter, and none of the people of Paradise should enter Paradise if he is owed something by one of the people of Hell, until I settle the matter — even if it is only the case of a slap.”) We said, `How will that be, when we have come before Allah barefooted, naked, uncircumcised and having nothing with us’ He said,

      «بِالْحَسَنَاتِ وَالسَّيِّئَات»

      (By ﴿merit for﴾ good deeds, and ﴿recompense﴾ for evil deeds.) Shu`bah narrated from Al-`Awwam bin Muzahim from Abu `Uthman from `Uthman bin `Affan, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Messenger of Allah said:

      «إِنَّ الْجَمَّاءَ لَتَقْتَصُّ مِنَ الْقَرْنَاءِ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَة»

      (The animal who lost a horn will settle the score with the one that has horns on the Day of Resurrection.) It was recorded by `Abdullah the son of Imam Ahmad, and there are corroborating narrations through other routes.

      • Zaman says:

        Masha’Allah, what a wonderful hadith, Gibran :) You may feel I’m being sarcastic or ignorant when I say this to you that I can’t wait for the Judgement’s day to happen. I want to meet Allah straight away, see Him and fall in sujood and tell Him everything that I’m going through. I know HE knows everything. I want everything of this to get sorted out here as my both worlds are at stake! May Allah forgive me for my shortcomings and ignorance, ameen. However, beautiful hadith this is.. mashaAllah… they always inspire me… I feel I’m so weak with mind and heart, Allah forgive if I have said anything wrong.

    • Selin says:

      Such a big test, subhanAllah. May Allah make it easy for you, and make this experience one that elevates you on the day of Judgment. Know that you’re strong, and that not everyone can carry the burden you have. Keep turning to Allah as HE is the only One who knows exactly what you faced and what you feel.

      • Zaman says:

        Ameen to your dua’s Selin. Thank you, jazakAllah for the kind words, I really appreciate. Exactly, HE is the only One who knows and who understands. May Allah elevate your status too for speaking to someone who is broken. Thanks for stopping by.

    • brucelee786 says:

      Asalamualakum,

      InshahAllah my response can help some homosexuals. It is lengthy, but will make sense.

      If anyone reads and tries to understand the Quran and sunnah, it clearly states Islam forbids homosexuality. Even the Abrahamic religions before Islam (Judaism and Christianity), they too forbid homosexuality clearly. An athlete (Jason Collins) recently reveled he was gay and while many non-Muslims are supportive, the religious people clearly are against. A former pastor and ESPN anchor spoke against it, and we share the same views.

      Only a male and female can have children and anything else is haraam and without getting graphical, a male and male just does not ‘fit’ and a female and female likewise does not ‘fit’, and we should not try to make things work that was not meant to be.

      In our world today, this, and many other sins (anti-hijab, less clothes, more out of wedlock relations, alcohol, music, etc) will become more and more common. Sin will be the norm. Our children of tomorrow will have many openly gay friends. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the world is supposed to become corrupt with time and the Dajaal will come. So if you look at every country, that is precisely what is happening.

      With that being said, I am trying to understand the arguments homosexuals make, such as the one made by the author of the article. Many claim they are born that way and it is out of their control. For a long time I did not buy this and felt it is a persons upbringing that causes them to become a homosexual. However a straight person cannot say whether a homosexual person was just born this way or made the choice. I would like to give the homosexuals who claim they were born this way the benefit of the doubt and lets say you were in fact born this way. Now what?

      In Islam and our belief, we know every soul goes through their own individual test and Allah does not put a test on a person more than he/she can bear. Many parents have children who are born with diseases, mentally challenged, or lose a child. Many people are born to poverty. Many people are are born with a limb missing. Many people have to deal with divorces, death, finances, and various tests, all in their own way. So in the same manner, if a homosexual was born that way and has feelings for the same sex, that just has to be controlled and the sin happens when YOU ACT ON IT.

      For homosexuals, this is YOUR test and you need to control it. We all fast in Ramadan, pray 5 times a day, give charity, have to lower our gaze, cover our bodies, refrain from pre-marital sex, and so on. This is what we have to do because Allah commanded us to do so. He gave us free will and told His guidelines and we have to follow it, and cannot make ‘customizations’ for ourselves. We cannot say on Day Of Judgement ‘I will ask Allah why he didn’t do this or that’ for me. That is a day we will be judged and as I said, there is NO TEST put on a person too much for them to handle.

      Many married people still have feelings for another person. Many married people need to control their feelings and not commit adultery. Almost every soul needs to lower his/her gaze from another person who you are very attracted to. I can tell you being married and living in America, I see beautiful women left and right who wear next to nothing and I have to control myself which is VERY VERY HARD. In Islam, Allah has put a woman number 1 for a man, before his wealth, children, property, etc., it is woman! Many people have to leave someone they like and marry someone their parents want them to. Many people have to sacrifice different things for the sake of Allah- this is the test we were put in and we need to finish it.

      If you have feelings for the same sex, just control it, marry someone of the opposite sex and pray to Allah to help you. Take those feelings to your grave. Yes it is easier said than done, but I just gave you a list of tests everyone deals with. Would you rather have a test of being born with a disease, be poverty stricken, handicap, or control your feelings for the same sex? The path we are SUPPOSED to take is control our desires. Islam is all about discipline (control eating, clothing, marriage, working, etc). Allah knows you did this for Him. You will continue to care for your spouse and have children and live a halal way of life. On the Day of Judgement, it is YOU WHO WILL be rewarded 10 fold.

      I pray for you and that this helps you make your decisions.

      -Salaam

      • Hyde says:

        Wow. Very interesting & refreshing.

      • Zaman says:

        @brucelee
        walaikom As Salam..
        masha’Allah well written, however something caught me here. You say “Many parents have children who are born with diseases, mentally challenged, or lose a child. Many people are born to poverty…” But nobody comes to me saying “I’m abnormal” if I am diseased, challenged, loose a child, or suffer in poverty. It is only when I’m a homosexual, I’m abnormal. I agree with you when you say about ‘by birth’. I’m yet to accept that I was born this way however I did not choose to be this way just like a heterosexual does not choose to be a heterosexual. The problem is we need to clean or change the lens through which we are seeing this. When I look at men, I hardly feel any desires rather I ask myself “what is wrong with me, why in the world i’m not like them. What is that is missing in me, why I can’t make the most of my life the way they do, why I keep feeling guilty and cry over my sexuality when I did not choose to be like this. “

        • brucelee786 says:

          Salaam,

          The point I was making is Allah could have easily placed another test for you. Would you rather be a child begging for food, or a father unable to provide the food, or a person with cancer and his years numbered or a Muslim who knows he has a homosexual issue that he needs to address for the sake of Allah? We all go through tests. This happens to be yours and I pray Allah guides and helps you.

          The reason why homosexuality is looked as abnormal is because it is forbidden. I know it is not easy, however because it is wrong and clearly written in the Quran, you have to not think twice about it.

          As I said before, you have to just marry a woman, grow to love her, and live a halal life. Arranged marriages are all over the world. You WILL care for your family. You can control your desires. If your faith in Islam is strong and love for Allah is strong, then that’s all you need to succeed.

          Let me give you an example. Tiger Woods cheated on his wife with numerous women. He committed adultery in every city he was in. When his wife caught him, he said he has a sex-addiction. Now, doctors say that is an actual mental disorder where people have a sex addiction. Should society accept this?

          He is Christian, so adultery is as haraam to them as it is to us. Should Tiger have fought his desires for sex with numerous women for the sake of God or is his reason justifiable? Tiger says he was just made that way and did not choose it.

          You said we need to change the lens through which we see this. What do you mean by this? That Islam and Muslims should embrace homosexuals? Please clarify. We cannot re-write the Quran and change what’s in it. That is why it is looked down upon.

          I am sure you know Islam and know Allah said he created everything in pairs. You know the story of Lut.

          I am going to level with you. I love women. I love beautiful women and looking at them. I am married. However, I do not cheat on my wife, and I try to lower my gaze. I know Allah Himself has said He put woman number one for a man, before his wealth, children and property. So when Allah said we need to lower our gaze, it is our test as men.

          In the same way, please try to control what you feel and may Allah help you!

    • fatima says:

      wa alaykum salaam Zaman . my heart and prayers go out to you akhi . i am your sister in faith and i hear you loud and clearly. most of all , feel your hurt . because this has happened and is still happening all over . it has not been dealt with (in my opinion) by the vast majority of ummah.alhumdulilah there is still so much hope.i feel that too .see how Allah the glorified has brought it to light by His mercy and grace.May Allah guide the muslimeen towards remedy and solution most suitable and may He bring to you a sense of sakeen for your heart ~ameen

      • Zaman says:

        jazakillahu khayr sis. Hearts of people from our own community are hardened and people like us, we need healing. Mostly words like these heal us. We don’t ask anyone to accept, we just only want people to understand and realize. Thanks a lot for stopping by and giving me hope. Truly, Glory to Allah alone. may Allah remove from you your troubles and problems and make you successful in duniyah and aakhirah, ameen. wa iyyak.

    • Gia Daniel says:

      No. You are not less of a man because you were raped. You were taken advantage of. There is no sin on you that something was done to you. And you were a child as well, had not reached the age of being responsible, even if you were of the age of making salawat mandatory, you were not an adult. You had feelings; nerve endings do not differentiate between the gender of the one who “should” be permitted to bring pleasure (which you still had not agreed to!) and the one who did bring both a pleasure and a guilt feeling and confusion as well.
      Allah, in His Mercy, has made it so that the feelings and thoughts that the Muslimeen have that are not for good deeds and are not acted upon … read the tafseer of Surah al Baqarah, the last three ayaat… not acting on them for wanting to obey Him is rewarded. Wanting to commit a sin, and not doing so because one knows that it is a sin, that Allaah does not like it, earns ajr, earns reward for not doing an evil deed AND for doing the good of obeying Him. We have that choice, whoever we are. Your wanting to confront the male entity who abused your body and your trust is natural, wa Allaahu Alim. Not acting on a desire to harm (that you don’t state, I am injecting it) is also natural, and rewarded.
      Think good of your Rabb. You may desire a thing that is not good for you, you may want to avoid a thing that is good for you.
      May Allaah give to you the best reward for the best of your good actions.

      • Zaman says:

        Thanks a ton Gia Daniel. Thanks for stopping by and taking out time to put this across. mashaAllah, that was inspiring to read and gives a good read and hope. Indeed so true – “not acting on them for wanting to obey Him is rewarded”. How merciful He is! Ameen to your dua’s.

        I’m not sure about how each of us feel about homosexuality however majority of our own Muslim brothers are so intolerant and abusive. I don’t ask them to accept it, rather I ask them to understand how tough it gets. “Feminish, not-a-man, they don’t fit” and what not’s I read on social media from our own brothers. jazakAllahu khayr for this beautiful reminder anyways. May Allah give you success in this world and hereafter, ameen. :)

    • Newmslma says:

      Wa alaikum Salam brother,

      I would like to recommend a couple of support websites for survivors of sexual abuse. They are not Islamic sites. They are purely support sites. One is pandys.org/forums. The other is aftersilence.org. Both sites have survivors as members. You can post your feelings, ask questions, vent. It helped me a lot. I’m not homosexual but I am a survivor of sexual abuse. I don’t work for either of those sites, I just have benefitted from both of them. May Allah help you with this struggle. Ameen.

      • Zaman says:

        JazakAllahu khayr. I’m so happy to know that they are people out there who understand how tough it gets. Thanks for the support, I have been searching for help centers like these however I came across a few which are country-specifics. However, I’ll go through the links you shared. May Allah make this life and hereafter, easy for you and give you ajar in helping me out. ameen.

    • Noor says:

      Ya Zaman,
      Just because you were raped does not make you homosexual. Perhaps both are true- you were the victim of a rapist pedophile and you may be homosexual as well, but they are two different things.
      As a child, you were not responsible for what a grown man did to you. You are innocent of that crime. Please stop blaming yourself. There is help for men and women who have been victims of rape. Please don’t be afraid to reach out and you will find that there are other men who were also abused. I beg you to get help from one of these sexual violence centers so you don’t have to live in pain and shame and you will find others who will become like your brothers and sisters because only they know the torture you’ve been through because they have been in the same place you are.
      May Allah SWT bless you and have mercy upon us all, ameen.

      • Zaman says:

        Thank you Noor. Um, I don’t know have not got a clue however what I remember is yes, I was abused. The only thing I remember is I was very strange as a child. Never belonged to any groups, hardly had friends, mostly stayed in corners, hidden in silences, always lived in fear, afraid of men, never hugged my mother, always confused. With immense help from Allah, I have tried a lot on me – still I sink down at times. You are so true – I think I need help that could empower me. Ameen to your dua’s. May Allah bless you too and keep you safe, ameen. I shall look into these help centers.

  3. Hyde says:

    In the Name of God, the Most Merciful & Compassionate,

    What times do Muslims live in that out of all the all things to be concerned we, we have to deal with these sorts of problems. I know when I was a boy I use to brag to my non-Muslim friends that the problem of sodomy is never going to be an issue for the Muslims, but obviously I was so wrong, since now we have homosexual Muslims unions and articles like these. I love Imam Webb for his understanding of the problems that Muslim youth in America are going through, but as mentioned is some of the comments, he must take an unequivocal stand on this this issue. More so I think the administrative staff of this website should have a serious discussion amongst themselves whether to allow for these sorts of issues to appear.

    This is a fitna of our age, these social media and self-gratuitous blogging. I mean ask yourselves my brothers and sisters, would common Muslims be having these discussions 100 years ago? Now no matter what your beliefs are or what sort of rational point of view you have, you can justify them via going online and finding others like you or misinterpreting or misusing some hadith or some fatwa to justify your stance. And then worse start attacking the accepted mainstream sunnah al-wa jamma to include your beliefs? Religion is something that changes you, not the other way around. Re-inventing the wheel is not going to make it any easier to use. Just because one has some fancy shmancy degree from a secular institutions (like NYU or Harvard or whatever) does not give them the right to re-interpreting or start changing rule.

    But let me argue on topic with a sort of an embellished story:

    A while back I saw documentary about pedophiles that have “served” their time but now can never really be allowed to integrate back into mainstream society. SO they sort of linger around some abandoned places and whatnot. But the shock was that unlike the image of the pedophiles we may have in our mind, of some creepy guy in an 80’s van or something, some of them were very educated and came from very good socio-economic backgrounds. And in an interview one of them, who I think was a lawyer or worked at Silicon Valley, said something every eerie. He said something of the sort that “we are what we are & society has to accept that. We really can’t go anywhere and we are part of society”. It was so uncomfortable to watch that. Very similar arguments were made for homosexuals and by homosexuals some 30, 40 years ago. And look at us now. The West always change their standards every decade or so. What was accepted now, was unheard of 15, 20 years ago. I am only in my mid-twenties and I so badly miss my childhood. Sometimes the campus and dialogues within seem so foreign and unreal to me. There is something wrong in a society when folks in their mid-twenties are already starting to miss the ‘good ol’e times’. Weather it is the whabbis or the Shia or now new branch, these secular liberalist, it is very hard being a Muslim, and even more so when you see other “Muslims” doing haram.
    Sometimes one can have the wish to just ran away to a forest and live by himself to get away from everything.

    So today we may have to talk about homosexuals, tomorrow pedophiles, and then necrophilia and it goes on and on. There is a hadith which states that “one of them will commit zina with their mothers, and there will be somebody in my Ummah that will do the same”? The dajallic path is being cemented brick by brick. Homosexuality will be a clarion issue for the Ummah of this century, (and I personally think it will be our sisters that are going to be in charge. Women will either save this religion or completely try to undo it. And I get that from reading some of the comments up above). Ultimately we as an Ummah will have to decide what face we will show on the Day of Judgment to the Lord of Creation, and when the best of creation comes around, what will others say of his Ummah? Whatever intentions we have, are we ready for That Day?

    Jazakallah Khair

    • jmi says:

      Salaam,
      Pedophile and homosexual are not the same thing. Yes, in Islam both are wrong, but do not confuse the two. A pedophile rapes children. A homosexual engages in a consensual relationship with an adult of the same gender. Two very different things and they have two very different effects on society. It is very rare that a person would be both at the same time.
      JAK

      • Hyde says:

        They are not right now…but wait and see. What about a ménage à trois and what about pornography ? If it is consensual why can’t we accept it ? G created me that way, so why can’t I do what pleases me if it is not hurting anybody ? Oldest trick in the book.

        • Ismail says:

          The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has forgiven my ummah for whatever crosses their mind so long as they do not speak of it or act upon it.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5269) and Muslim (201).

          According to this hadith, if thoughts of zina cross one’s mind but the person doesn’t act upon it, Allah will not hold them accountable. Mere intentions are not accountable; rather the actions which follow them.

          Similarly, if the a person’s test in this dunya is homosexuality, then as long as the author manages his impulses (himself or through psychosocial supports biznillah) and so doesn’t act upon his impulse, insha’Allah he will be rewarded wAllahu aalam.

          Secondly, if Shirk, the greatest sin in Islam can be the subject of discourse then so can homosexuality. Learning about shirk doesn’t mean we accept it; rather we try to understand what shirk is in order to avoid it. Similarly, discussing the like of issues pertaining to this article will insha’Allah create dialogue and give us an understanding of how to resolve them biznillah.

        • Safi says:

          Ismail,
          I haven’t studied the hadith you quoted. But if the translation is accurate, then it says “so long as they do not speak of it…”

          No Muslim should ever declare that they are attracted to the same gender sexually. They should not even declare that they are sexually attracted to specific people of the OPPOSITE gender.

          If you have a haram thought, you need to fight it off and KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.

        • HM says:

          To Safi:

          “If you have a haram thought, you need to fight it off and KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.”

          A thought can be haram? Do you have evidence to back this claim? Speaking something is an act of tongue, so it can be considered halal or haram or something else, but thinking? I think not.

          “They should not even declare that they are sexually attracted to specific people of the OPPOSITE gender.”

          But it is alright to say that you are a “normal” one, a heterosexual? Being homosexual, as being heterosexual, is not just having thoughts about sexual intercourse with someone. If one says that thinking about sex with someone (of either gender), and then talking about it is forbidden, then why the emphasis on homosexuals?

          The article itself is not about thoughts primarily. It is about identity, and attraction, something not necessarily accompanied by thoughts. It is subtler than mere thoughts, meaning that just as one heterosexual can find a particular person attractive, but not think at all about him/her, so can a homosexual.

      • Safi says:

        @HM

        “A thought can be haram? Do you have evidence to back this claim? Speaking something is an act of tongue, so it can be considered halal or haram or something else, but thinking? I think not.”

        To the extent that a thought is willfully indulging mentally in something forbidden, that thought is haram. Any thought that you can’t control cannot be considered haram. Examples: fantasizing about committing zina (whether with the same or opposite gender) is haram. But being turned on by seeing something or someone accidentally, but immediately averting your gaze and mentally changing the subject is not haram–it’s rewarded. As for my evidence, you need to consult with scholars, because they’re pretty clear that anything that leads to haram is itself haram, so a thought that one willfully dwells on can be haram. And Allah knows best.

        MORE IMPORTANTLY, even if the thought itself isn’t haram, all these thoughts will do is get you either nowhere or it will take you to the haram actions. So you’re better off fighting off these thoughts and keeping them to yourself.

        “But it is alright to say that you are a “normal” one, a heterosexual? Being homosexual, as being heterosexual, is not just having thoughts about sexual intercourse with someone. If one says that thinking about sex with someone (of either gender), and then talking about it is forbidden, then why the emphasis on homosexuals?”

        I hate to break it to you, but heterosexuality is indeed normal, and homosexuality is not normal, if for no other reason than the prevalence of each category among the population. It’s completely acceptable to say that I am attracted to the opposite gender generally speaking, because this can be fulfilled in a halal way through marriage. Homosexuality cannot be fulfilled in a halal way. If you’re talking about love that is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY NON-SEXUAL, then you’re talking about brotherly (or sisterly) love which ALREADY EXISTS among Muslims and is completely permissible and is encouraged by Allah Himself. For sexual love (or potentially sexual love), you need the opposite gender. For non-sexual love, that’s free for anyone. You don’t need to invent some imaginary category of platonic same-gender love to legitimize homosexuality among Muslims.

        “The article itself is not about thoughts primarily. It is about identity, and attraction, something not necessarily accompanied by thoughts. It is subtler than mere thoughts, meaning that just as one heterosexual can find a particular person attractive, but not think at all about him/her, so can a homosexual.”

        Listen, my friend. Finding someone to be attractive (even the same gender) has NOTHING to do with Muslims’ objection to homosexuality, and it should have nothing to do with your identity. Finding someone to be attractive is not something a person can control and thus cannot be haram. But to STARE at someone you think is attractive (who isn’t your spouse in marriage) is a sin, because it can inflame sexual passions, whether normal (and haram) heterosexual passions, or abnormal (and haram) homosexual ones. My objection is to people trying to make it acceptable to openly declare their desires for things that are haram.

        • HM says:

          “As for my evidence, you need to consult with scholars, because they’re pretty clear that anything that leads to haram is itself haram, so a thought that one willfully dwells on can be haram. And Allah knows best.”

          Scholars? Putting aside that many have serious disagreements about various issues, I shall admit to not reading much of the work by Islamic scholars regarding the issue, if such works are of significant importance in the first place. However, I have read some things regarding homosexuality as an act, and can confirm that scholars are, to my knowledge, in agreement about it. But, I have not seen much of their attention brought to the issue from other perspectives, excluding both sexual acts between persons of the same sex and behaviour which is frowned upon in Islam (i.e. man behaving “like a woman”).

          Also, merely stating “As for my evidence, you need to consult with scholars” is not an evidence, but is acceptance of someone’s thought about the issue. I will not however (ironically, from a certain point of view), offer irrefutable evidence on my part, but, like I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I know not of any Qur’an aya, or Sahih hadith, in which it is stated, or even implied, that same-sex attractions (homosexuality in narrower interpretation) are haram. If they are haram, then there should be a punishment prescribed for them, and no such punishment exists within Qur’an or Sunna, as far as I know. Again, I shall state that having thoughts cannot be considered haram or halal, because they are not deeds. If you disagree with me, you are free to do so, but I shall not discuss this matter further.

          Nonetheless, I also disagree with your statement that “anything that leads to haram is itself haram”, but I shall not discuss it.

          Regarding this “all these thoughts will do is get you either nowhere or it will take you to the haram actions”, I disagree. There are various outcomes of actions themselves, and with thoughts and similar, much more outcomes exists. Is it impossible for there to be another outcome of any one particular thought, desirable or not?

          “I hate to break it to you, but heterosexuality is indeed normal, and homosexuality is not normal, if for no other reason than the prevalence of each category among the population.”

          Limiting the issue at hand to humans only, and limiting homosexuality to things other than sex and opposite-gender-like behaviour, I disagree. It is especially not a valid argument to call upon the prevalence of something within the population. Countless examples exist. Something can be considered “abnormal” in a particular population, from a certain perspective, if it deviates much from the average, in quality or quantity. The problem is, there are many things that deviate much (a relative term, but let us put that aside for now) in any given population. Surely you are familiar with the story about the people of Lut, peace be upon him – to them, acting in the way Allah has ordered was considered “abnormal” behavior, and they considered homosexual acts as something normal. This is only one example of why the statement “if for no other reason than the prevalence of each category among the population” is false as an argument. And like I said, numerous examples exist.

          “Homosexuality cannot be fulfilled in a halal way.”

          I do not understand. You mean homosexuality as sexual desire? A desire for sex? Then you are correct indeed. But, my understanding of homosexuality differs from that which you (and most other people) seem to have of it – I consider not homosexuality merely a desire for sex, not necessarily a desire at all. Regarding fulfillment – as with heterosexuality, homosexuality is much more than mere desire to have sex.

          “If you’re talking about love that is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY NON-SEXUAL, then you’re talking about brotherly (or sisterly) love which ALREADY EXISTS among Muslims and is completely permissible and is encouraged by Allah Himself.”

          No I mentioned nothing of brotherly/sisterly love.

          “For sexual love (or potentially sexual love), you need the opposite gender.”

          In terms of sex – then yes. In terms of nonsexual (no sexual intercourse), but “sexually based” love, I disagree. Why would it be impossible to love someone, including being sexually attracted to him/her, and not committing acts which are forbidden. Furthermore, homosexuals, to my knowledge, rarely find any sort of fulfillment in heterosexual sex, when compared to heterosexuals.

          “Finding someone to be attractive (even the same gender) has NOTHING to do with Muslims’ objection to homosexuality, and it should have nothing to do with your identity.”

          You are wrong, but this post is large enough, and I shall not discuss this now.

          “Finding someone to be attractive is not something a person can control and thus cannot be haram.”

          Ah, and now you contradict to yourself, when this statement is compared to “homosexuality is not normal” and this one (where I see certain implication) “It’s completely acceptable to say that I am attracted to the opposite gender generally speaking” – so being attracted to a person of the same gender is not acceptable?

          “My objection is to people trying to make it acceptable to openly declare their desires for things that are haram.”

          And my objection to people, not that anyone is obliged to care, is using double standards in evaluating different cases of the same issue. Heterosexuals can say they love women, but homosexuals cannot. I shall stop here.

        • HM says:

          Also, regarding my statement:

          “Also, merely stating “As for my evidence, you need to consult with scholars” is not an evidence, but is acceptance of someone’s thought about the issue. I will not however (ironically, from a certain point of view), offer irrefutable evidence on my part,”

          I erred in stating that I shall not offer evidence on my part, because the burden of proof is on the one claiming something to be. And since no such valid proof has anyone offered (scholars included), I am not obliged to argue it with my “evidence”.

        • Zaman says:

          @Saifi: I hate to break it to you, but heterosexuality is indeed normal, and homosexuality is not normal.

          If homosexuality is not normal, why did I chose to be abnormal? Why do you guys have to keep the “being normal” as a yardstick to look upon your fellow men. You have no clue and you never will about the level of weight and burden we carry. Just thank Allah subhan that this level of test is not given to you. Who is to be blamed for the sexual abuse of a 5th standard school boy? For arousing sexual desires in him at such a young age that turns him to be a homosexual or gay, who is to be blamed? His innocence? Oh yes, may be he was not normal by birth. Thanks.

        • Safi says:

          “If homosexuality is not normal, why did I chose to be abnormal?”

          I didn’t say you chose to be abnormal. I simply stated that homosexuality is abnormal. Some may choose to be that way, others may not. Only Allah knows what choices people make, and He will take them to account for any wrong choices. But let’s be clear, people being attracted to the same gender is NOT normal, just as any disease is not normal. Please don’t try to normalize being attracted to the same gender rather than the opposite gender–it’s just as abnormal as being attracted to your own mother or father. If you had such feelings to a first degree relative, you’d keep quiet about it and not publicize it to the world and say that it’s “who you are,” wouldn’t you?

          I have to really wonder at some of the self proclaimed “gay Muslims.” Are your struggles really about resisting haram actions, or are they merely about the stigma that only comes when you declare to others that you’re attracted to the same gender? I get the feeling it’s more to do with the latter, and in that case it’s something you bring upon yourself.

          Muslims struggling against abnormal feelings that urge them to commit haram acts might indeed be far more beloved to Allah than us “normal” ones, and they have my sympathy. But the moment they try to make their urges everybody else’s business and try to justify their desires is the moment they lose my sympathy.

        • Zaman says:

          @Safi
          No I did not say that its you who claimed I chose to be abnormal. That was a question I was asking you. Ask as a question, rather than a claim and stop assuming things. So did Allah create me abnormal? By calling yourself as “us – normal ones” your self proclaimed goodness smells real bad. Nobody here is asking for your sympathy. You and me, we both need Allah. And when I say we should change the lens we are seeing this through, I mean to say change the methods you are using. All you “Self proclaimed straight community” have got one thing in common – you hide in the name of Qur’an. The moment you guys speak up, you speak only of “so do we change Quran for your sake”? Who the heck would want to change the word of Allah subhan? I get goosebumps even to type about it here and you have such a strength left in those limbs. It’s none of your business even to guess what my struggles are for. You shall understand only when your own son becomes victim of such a tragic evil prevailing in our society – sexual abuse! (God forbid) The fear cry and silence in his eyes will be invisible to you. Thanks.

    • lone ranger says:

      well said.

      • Hyde says:

        Well now I know why articles like these are appearing on this website. I mean I was so happy for websites like these exist, so young muslims can see and read what is relevant to them and whatnot. But with stuff like this:

        “At a Muslim conference in Long Beach last year, he suggested that mosques adopt a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy toward gays. Afterward, he was accosted by a local imam who accused him of poisoning Muslim youth. “I told him, ‘Quite frankly, you’re going to be irrelevant in 10 years,’ ” Webb says.”

        Oh Imam, you broke my heart. I was so inclined to listen to you and help spread the word of an Imam that had an American perspective, but stuff like this what can somebody say ?

        • HM says:

          ” so young muslims can see and read what is relevant to them and whatnot.”

          Of course, homosexuality, as is with anything else, is of significant relevance to some of the Muslims.

          Due to the chronic lack of knowledge about the subject at matter, among if not all then vast majority of Muslim scholars, I would agree that it is better to be silent about it, than spread misinformation, misconceptions, and in many instances, pure lies about it. Words of the uneducated one (regarding any one particular matter) can do more harm than good.

    • Bakhsh says:

      I agree with your comments on this subject. Quran says Christian and jews will never be pleased with you until you become like them. What next , serial killers, who have strong urge to kill through no fault of their own.

  4. jmi says:

    Salaam,
    A sin is a sin. So why do we treat homosexuals so terribly yet pray for other sinners? If we persecuted abusive men and extremists the way we go after gays, imagine how much more peaceful the world might be. We turn a blind eye to men who beat/abuse/mutilate/kill their wives and children but we openly and vehemently hate people who are not hurting anyone? We are all sinners and we all have struggles. We should always pray for each other regardless of our sin because we all seek forgiveness and we are ALL deserving of forgiveness. Nobody should ever tell someone, “You are not a Muslim.” We are all born Muslim and nothing can change that. Does one of you profess to have powers that Allah (swt) does not have? Do you have the power to change what someone was given at birth by Allah? I didn’t think so.

    • Gibran says:

      Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

      Yes but we are not all sinning the same. Some sins are far greater than others.

      • ABC says:

        What? beating/abusing/mutilating/killing wives and women is a LESSER sin? Good to know, dude. Ruining people’s lives is a lesser sin?

    • Hyde says:

      Are we accepting wife beaters, abusive men, extremist, & etc, into the full fold of sunnah-wal-jammah ? Are we openly saying people of these elements should be part of our jammahs ? That they should be included on boards and and teach our children and what-not ? No, of course not.

      And please, nobody is persecuting these people; nobody is going after them with pitchforks in a “gay witch” hunt, I don’t think so.

      We know they exist and that is fine. The issue is integration into mainstream muslim jammahs (i.e. Irshad Manji and her “gay jihad” are the problem, not homosexuals themselves).

    • Noor says:

      Subhaan Allah, I don’t have to struggle with being homosexual. That having been said, I wholly agree with “jmi” that the Muslim stance on this is hypocritical. As a community, we choose which sins to persecute. I personally know of women and children in my community who are abused physically by their husbands. Some of the Muslim men drink alcohol and some gamble. Yet, they are welcome in the mosque, especially if they donate money. However, if someone is homosexual they are a pariah. This is not right.
      As ‘jmi” said, we are ALL Muslims and ALL deserving of forgiveness. Only Allah SWT knows what is in the hearts and judgement is HIS province. And Allah SWT knows best.

      • Hyde says:

        Because dear sister homexuality has been univerally condemed. In today’s society all the traditions of the past are being blowerdized. It is the principal…i.e. the sin, not the sinner which proves unacceptance.

  5. Tauseef says:

    The author is clutching at straws. I did not read a single comment about what Allah has instructed us to do in the article. May Allah protect us from Bidaa. Allah knows best.

  6. Farhana says:

    “Muslim community needs to do more to support those of us who are homosexual and Muslim.” No muslim can support you once you choose to act what’s considered a haram. However, we can and will support you when you are struggling with something while you are against a formidable enemy, Iblis.

    You can be anything you want to be, choose to be a subservient muslim, seek Allah and you will come out stronger than ever, after all we have the most powerful ONE on our side alhamdulillah.

    Don’t give in, don’t succumb to your desires, you are a human being, don’t reduce yourself to be the slave of your desires.

    “She believed she could and she did”.

    Farhana

  7. Safi says:

    I can’t believe what I’m reading.

    I am willing to accept that some people (though a combination of societal and innate pressures) may be attracted to the same gender (in the same way that some people have a tendency to anger and violence, and some have a tendency to overeat, etc), but we don’t have words that describe latter categories (at least not flattering or even neutral terms).

    The concept of being a “homosexual” should be alien to us. If one is to admit that PRACTICING homosexuality is completely forbidden, then what on earth is the point of labeling yourself as belonging to a group of people who are inclined or tempted to commit this forbidden act?

    I can sympathize with the challenges of having to resist such temptations, but I do not know what it means to be “supportive” of people with such inclinations.

    Furthermore, I don’t see the point in PUBLICIZING to the rest of the world that you have an inclination to commit a haram act. What’s the point of someone saying “I have pedophilic inclinations, but I know it’s haram” ? Or telling people “I have fantasies of killing people, but I won’t do it because it’s haram” ?

    We need to stop this right now. The road is a dead end. Don’t venture down it.

    • MbintuM says:

      The concept of being a “homosexual” should be alien to us. If one is to admit that PRACTICING homosexuality is completely forbidden, then what on earth is the point of labeling yourself as belonging to a group of people who are inclined or tempted to commit this forbidden act?

      I can sympathize with the challenges of having to resist such temptations, but I do not know what it means to be “supportive” of people with such inclinations.

      Furthermore, I don’t see the point in PUBLICIZING to the rest of the world that you have an inclination to commit a haram act. What’s the point of someone saying “I have pedophilic inclinations, but I know it’s haram” ? Or telling people “I have fantasies of killing people, but I won’t do it because it’s haram” ?

      Exactly. I read this article a few weeks ago and it left me uncomfortable but I didn’t know how to express it at the time.

      This is what I wanted to say : “If you do KNOW that you have inclinations towards something haraam, why the need to share it if not ONLY as a way (maybe even subtle or subconscious) of justifying your feelings?”

      We ALL have a part of evil inside of us. That evil part is CONSTANTLY encouraged/aggravated by the Shaitan that was assigned to each one us. The very second someone lets his guard down and starts to say to himself “I can’t win against this so might as well accept it as part of my identity and others should too” it becomes an open door to temptation and sin.

      Everyone here knows what his or her weaknesses are, and YES some of them we were born with.

      So, should a man write an article saying he lusts after other people wives, knowing he can never have them, then ask people to not judge him ?

      “If you want to do xyz to your best friend/brother/neighbor’s wife… it’s okay. Tell us about it and as long as you don’t act upon it, we, your muslims brothers and sisters will acknowledge and support your haraam desires. After all, there is nothing wrong with WANTING to commit adultery.. I mean you were born like this… uh…don’t do it though, the act is an absolute abomination.”

      Here’s the problem. You want your struggle to be acknowledged. To what end? What would be the point?
      So that we feel sorry for you? Alright. We sincerely do. It is indeed a great test and I’m not being sarcastic at all.

      Now what ? What is the next step? Should we take special measures,for instance segregate according to sexual orientation as we do with gender ? Publicly identified gay Muslims at the very front and straight males right behind them ? Same thing with women?

      Should Masaajid invite a gay Shaykh every now and then to speak to gay muslim youngsters about tactics of lowering the gaze amongst men ?

      I mean seriously ! Should we CHANGE Islam because you can’t help being the way you are?

      Will our children grow up around “extra-struggling but chaste” gay Muslim brothers and sisters?

      This is EXACTLY how it started in kuffar societies: acknowledgment, compassion, acceptance, desensitization and finally total and unconditional surrender.

      This is what he see happening in those comments. People starting to say to themselves “Well if he is homosexual… then he is…. I don’t know… is it really that bad… what if he tries very hard not to do anything… is it okay then?”

      Homosexuality has become so prevalent in today’s societies that people start becoming either completely indifferent or even clement towards it.

      This article is dangerous because the author is hiding behind words to open a door that should remain closed.

      I’ll use the author’s analogy to make my point.

      We should continue to ignore the elephant in the room. We shouldn’t have to make bigger mosques for pachyderms.

      Large animals need to understand that being created the way they are doesn’t mean the (smaller) world should adapt to them. THEY should make their best to squeeze in, until they’re let out.

    • fatima says:

      You have a point.

  8. SK says:

    Some truly ridiculous comments on here. I am a female Muslim scientist from the UK.
    I can assure you that homosexuality is not a choice, neither is it unnatural.
    Not talking about this or mentioning this is actually irresponsible. We need to help folk and to reach out to them, that cant be done by pretending they don’t exist. As Muslims we need to open our eyes and get in touch with our humanity and not just the idea of sin.

    Judge not, lest ye be judged.

    • abdullah says:

      Justifying a sin is an even bigger sin and oblitertes any chance of repentance.

      Read Quran. Read about prophet Lout.

      When you say it is not a CHOICE or UNNATURAL you are blaming Allah for your sins.

      At least have courage to take responsibility.

    • Hyde says:

      Okay sister-scientist from the UK, then what about a pedophiles or habitual rapist ? Are they born that way ? There , I believe, is an incest trial in Germany where a man wants to legally marry his own sister ?

      There should be no persecution against homosexuals, but make no mistake about it, homosexulaity is a floodgate issue; you allow it, everything dissolves away, i.e. are sisters to wear the hijab in front of homosexuals ?

      • Noor says:

        The same argument was used for all social changes and it shows a certain lack of integrity.The real reason that you and many other people are drawing the line at homosexuality is because you have lost in previous social battles.

      • Muslimah says:

        Yes, sisters are meant to wear hijab in front of homosexuals, male and female (assuming you know). See Bukhari 4324, which is long and boils down to the Prophet sallalahu alayhe wasallam at first allowed a man who was considered “to be a male without any sexual desire” to visit his wives somewhat freely. Then one day he heard the man gossiping about the appearance of another woman’s body. At that point, he told his wives not to allow the man to enter, i.e., visit them indoors and them not wearing hijab.

        Elsewhere, can’t find or remember it now, of course, that hijab is preferred if a sister is among women of loose morals. Couldn’t speak to whether the intention is to protect the sister from the women with loose morals or to distinguish the sister as not among them.

        Now, as to the main topic. I met a man once who was a homosexual whose mother upon hearing of this arranged personally for their pastor (the family was nominally Christian), the local sheriff, and several other men of stature in their small town to come and pull him from his bed in the middle of the night, beat him to a pulp, drive him out of town and leave him bleeding by the side of the road. He managed to survive and never went home again. Miraculously, he also managed not to believe they in any way spoke for God. So that is one extreme in terms of reaction to the case of person being homosexual.

        The other extreme is to say, “That’s okay, have a cookie. People can be sooo mean.”

        What causes homosexual attractions? I’m not sure anyone knows for certain what the cause is. There are different theories sometimes voiced by people who are able to be calm and lucid in their expression. No one has entirely convinced me yet. My extremely unscientific opinion is that it is probably the result of multiple factors. Not everyone who feels same-sex attractions has been sexually abused in childhood, but many have. Not everyone in that group has had other kinds of trauma, but many have. I don’t know how that group compares to the heterosexual population. Research with twins raised separately indicates there may be some kind of underlying genetic factor.

        I do know this: I am not accusing anyone here of this, but I will say that no one is ever helped by rejection. I don’t read rejection here. I read in the initial posts especially, “Wow, that’s tough, I will make du’a for you, this is a huge test and if you can just bear with it you are going to be well rewarded in the life to come.” To me, while I can see how it might sound like they don’t get it, but I also see in it the intention to comfort and support. Not with the intent to support the original author in sexual choices that are haram, there is no doubt that this form of sexual behavior is haram, but to support him in trying to heal and be a solid Muslim.

        As to pedophiles and other sexual predators, there is in fact substantial evidence that their affliction is something they were born with. No matter what treatment method is used, the recidivism rate is overwhelming and sad. Once caught, society has two choices: either keep them locked away for the rest of their lives or kill them and be done with it.

        The situation for people struggling with a tendency toward same-sex attraction is different in that it also involves the normal and healthy drive toward companionship. Predators tend to be anti-social.

        I am aware of more than one couple who have both had same-sex attraction, married each other and made what appears from the outside to be a decent marriage out of it. Certainly, each could understand what the other was going through, an certainly, they could provide each other with companionship if nothing else, and that is a blessing not to be sniffed at.

        The original author has a weight to bear, I think we can agree on that? Compassion doesn’t have to become a soppy sentimentality.

    • MbintuM says:

      Muslim sister, I read your posts and see you keep calling people ridiculous and ignorant for not agreeing with you. Alright. Since you have a superior scientist brain, could you explain to us what exactly we should do in face of this issue? How should we help out and reach gay Muslims ? How do we get in touch with our humanity? Could you elaborate on specific measures that should be taken to make their (islamic) lives easier? You already told us not to judge. Fair enough. Judgment belongs to Allah. What else?

    • MbintuM says:

      I wish I could let it pass, but sincerely, I HAVE to answer this. :)

      Sister SK, please understand that people having different views than yours doesn’t make them less intelligent. Some people are just not able to express themselves as eloquently as others.

      They still have a right to state their opinions without being called “ignoramuses” especially by someone who claims to be their sister in religion.

      The problem is that you ASSUME we disagree because we’re too stupid, ignorant, fanatical and backwards to be able to grasp the complexity of the question. Well, believe it or not, some of us have used our brains and knowledge to examine the issue, we just arrived at a different conclusion than yours, which is our right.

      We too have studied science and some of us are even scientists, just like you. Talking down to people you know nothing about doesn’t make you intellectually superior, it just makes you come off as arrogant and rude.

      “Homosexuality is natural”. Well, so are bowel movements. Why then are most of us disgusted and embarrassed to talk about feces? I mean every human being since the beginning of times has been subjected to it. The answer is simple: natural is not necessarily synonymous to good.

      It’s natural to be born with mental retardation. It’s natural in the sense that it randomly occurs in nature. Would you wish it on anyone’s child?

      If naturally speaking, homosexuality is as legitimate as heterosexuality, why are our sexual organs only compatible with the opposite sex? As in biologically and physically compatible, meaning naturally leading to the survival of the species by means of reproduction?

      We know that in the animal kingdom, species that are genetically close can reproduce: dogs/wolves, horses/donkeys etc. and we also know that their offspring will most of the time be infertile. It’s “Mother nature”‘s way of keeping things in order.

      So, since homosexuality is natural as in wish-able according to you, why doesn’t “nature” adapt to it as it did with animals?

      You said that homosexuality isn’t spreading, which is completely true. Gay people just feel more and more comfortable coming out in societies where their sexual orientation is more widely accepted.

      But since homosexuality is so inherent to human nature, why aren’t there more gay people?
      There are more blond/blue eyed people than there were 2000 years ago. People in the world are generally (much) taller than their ancestors. Why hasn’t “nature” produce a much higher percentage of
      homosexuals although it’s so natural?

      For the same reason that the majority of children in the history of mankind will be born healthy rather than with any mental or physical defect.

      See? Some of us actually used our cognitive abilities to objectively analyze the issue and
      come to a logical conclusion.

      It’s not to say that Gay Muslims should be rejected.

      If sexual urges nullified one’s Islam, I don’t think there would be a single human being entering Jannah on the Day of judgment.

      Yes, heterosexual people have forbidden desires as well. Getting married might satisfy the emotional and sexual need but it does not make the attraction to other people go away.

      Lowering the gaze and guarding one’s private parts is a lifelong battle for most of us. If it wasn’t, there would be no one committing adultery.

      We fight everyday against our very nature and against the suggestions of Shaitan because we know the consequences of sins and because we want to please our Lord.

      Why can’t Gay Muslims just do the same. Silently struggle like the rest of us?

      Because they want to be justified in their desires and given permission to act upon them?

      Well, you see, we’re Muslims. We take our guidance and submit to the authority of the Qur’an. Said Qur’an tells us that sex with a person of the same gender is an abomination and we take God’s word for it. We don’t let our limited minds, whims, desires, culture, time period, favorite TV shows or celebrities, mainstream viewpoint tell us otherwise. Because that’s what makes us Muslims.

  9. Noor says:

    I’m very disappointed. If you are going to be this intolerant, please continue sweeping the issue under the carpet.At least that way, gays and lesbians minds won’t be poisoned by ignorant suggestions.
    For your information, There is no cure for homosexuality and there will never be. Praying won’t help.Resisting the temptations won’t help.Because homosexuality isn’t just about sex, It’s also about love and every human being needs love.Please,read more on the subject before speaking so blithely about it.You can’t label people’s identity as sin.It’s like saying someone’s whole existence is sinful.

    • Gibran Mahmud says:

      Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

      It seems pretty strange in this era there are so many “homosexuals>.” One wonders how all the “homosexuals” of the past kept themselves hidden.

      In any case, this is utter rubbish. It’s a sin, and it is punished. I don’t go around telling people about strange desires I have and wanting them to accept me.

      As for the “love part”-that is atrocious love. You could say the same thing for a mother and her son-but subhanAllah that is haram as well and a severe immorality.

      • Noor says:

        It seems you’re unaware of the history of homosexual love in Islamic nations. Homosexual love was both prevalent and tolerated in the past.
        Countless poems and stories were written about the beauty of youths and erotic love between men.Some of these poems and stories are very well-known and anyone with a little knowledge about Middle Eastern literature would know about them.

        • Hyde says:

          Yeah, nobody is saying sodomdy was invented in 1966, it is old as it gets. It has been part of human history, and continue to be part of it until History itself will end (which hopefully won’t be too far off), but did they have gay pride days in the past ? Did Muslims, in particular, have debates weather “open” homosexuals should be allowed to fully integrated into our communities ? or weather or astaghfirullah there should be homosexual “unions” ? Ahemmm NO.

    • Hyde says:

      Some old arguments; please read my (& others)comments above.
      (I dare say, that female sentimentality may have something to do with this)

      • Noor says:

        Your reply is very insulting.Should we women not bother our pretty little heads with serious issues like this and leave them to wise and strong men?
        Homosexuality has deeply emotional consequences in society.Many people experience overwhelming pain because our culture teaches us that homosexuality is not only sinful but abhorrent and heinous.It’s very illogical to ignore all this and chuck it up to sentimentality.I have read your comments Hyde and i see no solutions in them.

        • Hyde says:

          First of all a politicized Muslima can do wonders for this ummah…recently I saw a wonderful hijabi sister, very eloquently defend her religion against a heretical misanthrope. In fact it would do wonders to have practising, orthodox (nonsecular/liberalist) Muslim women get involved with political islam.
          So that is that with the pretty little head comment.

          And sodomy IS abhorrent and heinous when allowed to be part of mainstream society.

          And by female sentimentality I meant this effusive, obsequious “pretty politically correctness” that may come from the fact women are generally more compassionate and merciful towards…well most things, even things they perhaps should not be.

          And I never said in any of comments that I have a panacea for the ills of sodomy, I don’t. Nobody does. This is the sign of the times we live in. And much, much worse is yet to come.

  10. SK says:

    agree with Noor

  11. SK says:

    sexist attitudes too, now?

  12. Maryam says:

    Assalamualaykum,

    I accept the fact that homosexuality is spreading- rapidly might I dare add- throughout the world. I reluctantly understand the fact that homosexuality is alive in the Muslim community to a small extent. However, I absolutely cannot tolerate the idea that ‘Muslims’ are justifying their choice- yes, choice- with Islam. Quite frankly, that is absolutely ridiculous.

    Have you forgotten about the story of Lut, and their horrific punishment, or is that story to be ignored? Have you forgotten that Allah says: “We also (sent) Lût: he said to his people: “Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds” [Sûrah al-A`râf: 80-81]

    Lastly, I’d like to touch a bit on the fact that gay ‘Muslims’ have been claiming that their sexuality is not their choice. Allah (S.W.T) has given us freedom of choice, which makes us superior to angels, for they have no free will. By saying that something is not your choice, you are denying what is granted to us by God. Every single action that we do is our choice, and being gay is a choice in itself. Even according to psychological and medical terms, the word ‘Homosexual’ is a defined as a sexual Orientation or preference. PREFERENCE. Which is also known as ‘choice’.

    Once more, I accept that homosexuality is present, and I won’t discriminate or speak to a homosexual person with a disregard for their humanity, but I absolutely refuse to acknowledge that people are justifying their homosexuality with ayah’s that ‘may perhaps be interpreted in various ways’.

    May Allah guide you and help you overcome this hurdle that is now yet another adversity and conflict to be faced by all Muslims worldwide. Ameen.

  13. Mike Allan says:

    Of course homosexulaity is a choice. You choose to attempt illegal sexual relations with someone of the same gender, just like a heterosexual person chooses to have zina, or rape or kill someone.

    If one experiences a homosexual attraction/lust, but one doesn’t act on it then alhamdulillah, may God bless you, but it it’s saddening to me the way some dismiss psychology and brain chemistry imbalance as the cause, choosing an utterly ridiculous ‘I have no control over it, it’s in my genes’ type dodges.

    It is also CLEARLY haram.

    • Zaman says:

      @Mike Allan
      Please correct yourself. Homosexual sex is a choice, homosexuality is NOT a choice. I can choose to refrain from sex but I can’t choose to refrain from what I’m. Again, we need to clean or change lenses through which we are seeing this issues. Only when it comes to “homosexuals” people start using “sex” or “intercourse” as a yardstick because that’s where you win. You have no clue what it is to be a homosexual where the whole world keeps telling you that you are abnormal esp Muslim community. Thanks.

      • Mike Allan says:

        I think you need to clean your own lenses as it seems to me your ‘weishfulness’ edited what I said as your ‘correction’ is just a rehash of what I said. I talked about choosing to have homosexual sex (the sin) quite distinct from having the feelings which you label with the suffix ‘ality’
        As for homosexual feelings, I guess there pretty close to homosexual feelings. I can well imagine infatuation with someone (anyone) can grow eventually to the point of having a sexual desire for them – even just “pretend accidental” skin/body contact.

        Personally as a heterosexual, I have felt what I’ve described above, but to ‘cut it off’ before anything haram happens, is possible and probably will gain reward if done for the sake of Allah. It’s the physical activity that is the abnormal thing. Just like Zina should be an abnormal thing.

        It’s a pity homosexuals try to make themselves different. Newsflash: Your just person with feelings and like everyone else you’ve just got to take responsibility and not act upon them when it would be sinful to do so.

  14. Safura says:

    Salam alaykum,
    Let me say i am both gay and Muslim. And I was so blessed to have let an Iman early on who put me straight. Being gay doesn’t make you less muslim just like being a fornicator or a thief makes you less muslim, and we all know our masajid have plenty of those in them. I am happy that this issue, like racism, sexism and nationalism, is getting talked out because the REALITY is that there are gay Muslims and if we keep telling people that your sexuality nullifies your deen we will see many more people like me disappear from our ranks.

  15. SK says:

    so many ignoramuses on here- please don’t despair. being gay doesn’t make you any less of a Muslim.

    • brucelee786 says:

      No it does not make you less of a Muslim (Shahada), but it does make you a sinner. It is totally disliked by Allah and very clear, and as clear as committing adultery. Can that be denied? Can a homosexual defend themselves and say ACTING on that is okay? If you were born that way, well hide that secret and die with it, while living a halal life.

      How do you explain this:

      “Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds” [Sûrah al-A`râf: 80-81]

  16. SK says:

    homosexuality is spreading! LOL! that is utterly ridiculous. Open your eyes and read some history. There are no more gay people now than at previous times in history.

    Live and let live, stop judging other people’s humanity- in doing so, you’re losing your own.

  17. SK says:

    The lack of tolerance towards gay people is enough to make me question my faith. If this is Islam, then I am not sure i want it.

    • brucelee786 says:

      I think you have bigger issues to address than tolerating/supporting homosexuals if you are questioning Islam now. You cannot turn to Judaism or Christianity also, since they too forbid homosexuality. So what God will you turn to that tolerates and embraces homosexuality?

      Do you know the most favorite relationship to Allah is that of husband and wife. In addition, the only relation reuniting in heaven will be husband and wife.

      It will not be husband and husband or wife and wife. Abnormal is slowly becoming the norm. The more we do something, the more normal it becomes. Lets take porn for example- it is widely accepted in America. Married people watch it. It isn’t cheating unless you actually do something, but watching porn is fine.

      There are also swingers in this country. That is perfectly acceptable to our society and will become the ‘norm’ soon enough. Giving teens the advise to use protection is preached by so many parents, so we have accepted homosexuality and pre-marital sex and porn as a Christian nation.

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