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	<title>Comments on: Watch For The Violence Mongers: Mosque Informants, Agent Provocateurs And Disruption In The Muslim American Community.</title>
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		<title>By: malangbaba</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10226</link>
		<dc:creator>malangbaba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 06:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10226</guid>
		<description>As Salaam u Alaikum &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thank you for posting this.  I wish more scholars and leaders in our communities would speak about this issue openly and to the point.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was involved in highlighting these same concerns in NYC as a community organizer and activist for the past 8 years, and must sadly say that a lot of the blame for this lies with our community leaders as well, who not only invited such law enforcement agencies into the communities in the first place, but also maintained relations with them as information about such cases and tactics started to manifest into cases.  Of course the main blame lies upon the government and the law enforcement agencies, but we must hold leaders to account as well.  I discuss some of these issue here as well as other posts: &lt;a href=&quot;http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-frame-up-being-exposed.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But what I would really like to highlight is the intent of these tactics, which are not new, but have been practiced by this government repeatedly in the past against &quot;enemies&quot; and in particular in communities of color and socio-political movement, most notably in the form of COINTELPRO in the 60s and 70s.  Dr. Hatem Bazian gave a wonder talk on this here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11382&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11382&lt;/a&gt; .  I would add some observations from my work in the South Asian and Muslim community in NYC, and also from discussion with elders who were part of the Black Power movement in the 60s and 70s and their experiences...The purpose of such tactics:&lt;br&gt;1. To feed the war hysteria - the inciting of such scare tactics and fear-mongering seeks to justify to US public the necessity of the wars the US is engaged in in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in other countries like Somalia, Palestine, etc (by proxy).&lt;br&gt;2. To silence the Muslim community and dissent at a moment when it is the very same countries that wars are being waged upon. Both these points are tried and true tactics, that the war abroad is always coupled with a war at home. At a moment when Muslim countries are being invaded, it would be the Muslim community here that would be expected to dissent and speak up most vigorously. However, the creation of such a climate of fear effectively silences those same communities. The same was done with the Indigenous communities from the beginning of American colonialism, with those kidnapped from Africa and their descendants since slavery to this day, with the Japanese in World War II, with Communists through the 40s and 50s, with Central Americans in the 70s and 80s, and many others.  For this reason it is very important that people in our communities continue to speak the truth, but do so openly with Islamic etiquette.  Not doing so leaves the room open for people to say wild things in private hidden spaces.&lt;br&gt;3. There is major money and funding at stake here.  From anti-terrorism units for federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies, for the informants, for contractors (who provide trainings and equipment)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interested folks should also check out the report put out by the NYPD (&quot;Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat&quot;) in 2007 which laid these and other techniques out for other police departments (in this country and abroad)  to follow: &lt;a href=&quot;http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2007/10/nypds-report-on-muslims-pt-1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2007/10/nypds-re...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Wa Salaam&lt;br&gt;fahd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Salaam u Alaikum </p>
<p>Thank you for posting this.  I wish more scholars and leaders in our communities would speak about this issue openly and to the point.</p>
<p>I was involved in highlighting these same concerns in NYC as a community organizer and activist for the past 8 years, and must sadly say that a lot of the blame for this lies with our community leaders as well, who not only invited such law enforcement agencies into the communities in the first place, but also maintained relations with them as information about such cases and tactics started to manifest into cases.  Of course the main blame lies upon the government and the law enforcement agencies, but we must hold leaders to account as well.  I discuss some of these issue here as well as other posts: <a href="http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-frame-up-being-exposed.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-.." rel="nofollow">http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-..</a>.</p>
<p>But what I would really like to highlight is the intent of these tactics, which are not new, but have been practiced by this government repeatedly in the past against &#8220;enemies&#8221; and in particular in communities of color and socio-political movement, most notably in the form of COINTELPRO in the 60s and 70s.  Dr. Hatem Bazian gave a wonder talk on this here: <a href="http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11382" rel="nofollow">http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11382</a> .  I would add some observations from my work in the South Asian and Muslim community in NYC, and also from discussion with elders who were part of the Black Power movement in the 60s and 70s and their experiences&#8230;The purpose of such tactics:<br />1. To feed the war hysteria &#8211; the inciting of such scare tactics and fear-mongering seeks to justify to US public the necessity of the wars the US is engaged in in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in other countries like Somalia, Palestine, etc (by proxy).<br />2. To silence the Muslim community and dissent at a moment when it is the very same countries that wars are being waged upon. Both these points are tried and true tactics, that the war abroad is always coupled with a war at home. At a moment when Muslim countries are being invaded, it would be the Muslim community here that would be expected to dissent and speak up most vigorously. However, the creation of such a climate of fear effectively silences those same communities. The same was done with the Indigenous communities from the beginning of American colonialism, with those kidnapped from Africa and their descendants since slavery to this day, with the Japanese in World War II, with Communists through the 40s and 50s, with Central Americans in the 70s and 80s, and many others.  For this reason it is very important that people in our communities continue to speak the truth, but do so openly with Islamic etiquette.  Not doing so leaves the room open for people to say wild things in private hidden spaces.<br />3. There is major money and funding at stake here.  From anti-terrorism units for federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies, for the informants, for contractors (who provide trainings and equipment)</p>
<p>Interested folks should also check out the report put out by the NYPD (&#8221;Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat&#8221;) in 2007 which laid these and other techniques out for other police departments (in this country and abroad)  to follow: <a href="http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2007/10/nypds-report-on-muslims-pt-1.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2007/10/nypds-re.." rel="nofollow">http://malangbaba.blogspot.com/2007/10/nypds-re..</a>.</p>
<p>Wa Salaam<br />fahd</p>
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		<title>By: salim</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10107</link>
		<dc:creator>salim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10107</guid>
		<description>Ironic that the CIA financed and created the &#039;jihadist&#039; ideology in Afghanistan and Pakistan to create a war against Soviet Russia in the 1980s. Sounds like they are doing the same thing domestically within the US to trap Muslims.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My view is that the whole Communist/Capitalist Cold war and now the War on Terrorism is just a pretext used by the small number of people in power to bring about a world where they get most of the worlds wealth (without doing any work), control it and they keep the rest of us in paid employment or poverty. Some of the paid employees will be given wealth and power to control those below them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The pretext of terrorism or communist/capitalist is based on the idea of creating a false problem, having a reaction against it and coming to the goal of a synthesis solution. The US is not a capitalist state, it is highly communized with rich corporations receiving state subsidies and welfare. The goal is to create a world system like that, so a false terrorism has been created, and the fight against it allows the rulers to create their new world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironic that the CIA financed and created the &#39;jihadist&#39; ideology in Afghanistan and Pakistan to create a war against Soviet Russia in the 1980s. Sounds like they are doing the same thing domestically within the US to trap Muslims.</p>
<p>My view is that the whole Communist/Capitalist Cold war and now the War on Terrorism is just a pretext used by the small number of people in power to bring about a world where they get most of the worlds wealth (without doing any work), control it and they keep the rest of us in paid employment or poverty. Some of the paid employees will be given wealth and power to control those below them.</p>
<p>The pretext of terrorism or communist/capitalist is based on the idea of creating a false problem, having a reaction against it and coming to the goal of a synthesis solution. The US is not a capitalist state, it is highly communized with rich corporations receiving state subsidies and welfare. The goal is to create a world system like that, so a false terrorism has been created, and the fight against it allows the rulers to create their new world.</p>
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		<title>By: N</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10093</link>
		<dc:creator>N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10093</guid>
		<description>I &quot;get&quot; and appreciate the warning but alhamdulillah I came to Islam a good few years before 9/11 and there were already suspicions about converts and sad to see this trend continues.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;10 years ago if you were too moderate you weren&#039;t a real muslim. now if you mention jihad you&#039;re possibly a plant. what will 10 years hence bring? whatever it is, it seems converts will be under suspicion.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;not very welcoming but have pretty much resigned myself. as i hear time and again from converts - it is just me and Allah SWT. Of course, Allah SWT is the best Wakeel, but would have been nice to feel the close, accepting community thing. Oh well. Alhamdulillah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I &#8220;get&#8221; and appreciate the warning but alhamdulillah I came to Islam a good few years before 9/11 and there were already suspicions about converts and sad to see this trend continues.</p>
<p>10 years ago if you were too moderate you weren&#39;t a real muslim. now if you mention jihad you&#39;re possibly a plant. what will 10 years hence bring? whatever it is, it seems converts will be under suspicion.</p>
<p>not very welcoming but have pretty much resigned myself. as i hear time and again from converts &#8211; it is just me and Allah SWT. Of course, Allah SWT is the best Wakeel, but would have been nice to feel the close, accepting community thing. Oh well. Alhamdulillah.</p>
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		<title>By: riyaz</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10072</link>
		<dc:creator>riyaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10072</guid>
		<description>I agree with Nafees.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But what sort of freedom is it when one cannot openly criticize the government?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Founding Fathers of America wanted a limited government which did not become all powerful taking away the freedoms of individuals, it appears that the government stopped being that sort of government a long time ago and as usual it used the threat of &#039;Muslims&#039;, &#039;Communists&#039;, &#039;Terrorists&#039; or whatever to seize power. I think America and the UK is fast heading towards tyranny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Nafees.</p>
<p>But what sort of freedom is it when one cannot openly criticize the government?</p>
<p>The Founding Fathers of America wanted a limited government which did not become all powerful taking away the freedoms of individuals, it appears that the government stopped being that sort of government a long time ago and as usual it used the threat of &#39;Muslims&#39;, &#39;Communists&#39;, &#39;Terrorists&#39; or whatever to seize power. I think America and the UK is fast heading towards tyranny.</p>
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		<title>By: Nafees</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10068</link>
		<dc:creator>Nafees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10068</guid>
		<description>Assalaamu Alaikum,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Al-Hamdulillah, I helped a person come to Islam last year at my local masjid; however, I could not get out of my head the suspicion that this brother, who for all intents and purposes is sincere in his conversion, was a spy. Such paranoia is totally wrong.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As Muslims we must (within reason) take people at their face value, if a brother or sister has come to Islam we should not second guess their intentions, I would hate to see converts getting anything less than a loving welcome from our community.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We are not ashamed of Islam, or talking about issues like Jihad and politics (which form a part of it); if we are on the middle path and speak the truth of Islam *in a wise manner*, we should not fear the repercussions of what we have to say even if Government locks us up.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This news should only be worrisome for the hypocrites and those lacking intellect, as only they have something to lose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For the rest of us, we pray Allah keeps us straight path and keeps our hearts soft InshaAllah.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We should see this as an opportunity, let us show these Kaffirs and informers our warm welcome and our beautiful way of life, Islam – maybe they may come to our Deen if we do :-)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Allah Guides whom He Wills and He Knows Best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assalaamu Alaikum,</p>
<p>Al-Hamdulillah, I helped a person come to Islam last year at my local masjid; however, I could not get out of my head the suspicion that this brother, who for all intents and purposes is sincere in his conversion, was a spy. Such paranoia is totally wrong.</p>
<p>As Muslims we must (within reason) take people at their face value, if a brother or sister has come to Islam we should not second guess their intentions, I would hate to see converts getting anything less than a loving welcome from our community.</p>
<p>We are not ashamed of Islam, or talking about issues like Jihad and politics (which form a part of it); if we are on the middle path and speak the truth of Islam *in a wise manner*, we should not fear the repercussions of what we have to say even if Government locks us up.</p>
<p>This news should only be worrisome for the hypocrites and those lacking intellect, as only they have something to lose.</p>
<p>For the rest of us, we pray Allah keeps us straight path and keeps our hearts soft InshaAllah.</p>
<p>We should see this as an opportunity, let us show these Kaffirs and informers our warm welcome and our beautiful way of life, Islam – maybe they may come to our Deen if we do <img src='http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Allah Guides whom He Wills and He Knows Best.</p>
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		<title>By: Ibrahim </title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10067</link>
		<dc:creator>Ibrahim </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10067</guid>
		<description>don&#039;t know what everybody is worrying about. hasbunAllahu ni&#039;mal-wakil.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;nonetheless, all this is giving converts a bad name.&lt;br&gt;uk media shows that converts are terror suspects. &lt;br&gt;now we are told they are informers. lol. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;i think we muslims living in the west shouldn&#039;t fear at all, always maintaining adab and speaking the truth, even if others (non-muslims) don&#039;t like it. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;now there is a growing inferiority complex among western muslims, leading to compromise with husn az-zann for kuffar and su az-zann for muslims....to the extent that kuffar are no longer kuffar but some zombies that haven&#039;t been presented islam nicely gift wrapped for a merry christmas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>don&#39;t know what everybody is worrying about. hasbunAllahu ni&#39;mal-wakil.</p>
<p>nonetheless, all this is giving converts a bad name.<br />uk media shows that converts are terror suspects. <br />now we are told they are informers. lol. </p>
<p>i think we muslims living in the west shouldn&#39;t fear at all, always maintaining adab and speaking the truth, even if others (non-muslims) don&#39;t like it. </p>
<p>now there is a growing inferiority complex among western muslims, leading to compromise with husn az-zann for kuffar and su az-zann for muslims&#8230;.to the extent that kuffar are no longer kuffar but some zombies that haven&#39;t been presented islam nicely gift wrapped for a merry christmas.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahmad</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10066</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10066</guid>
		<description>In the UK there are a few converts and brown-skinned infiltrators who stir up talk and it really is entrapment. Even the undercover documentaries do this to get some juicy footage, only to be exposed for their lying and decietful ways to obtain news material. Muslims usualy sniff the radical ones out and just distance themselves.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Musilms should be extra vigilant and guard their tongues and actions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I dont know why we should trust security services or agencies anymore, if they do not trust us and clearly want to entrap people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the UK there are a few converts and brown-skinned infiltrators who stir up talk and it really is entrapment. Even the undercover documentaries do this to get some juicy footage, only to be exposed for their lying and decietful ways to obtain news material. Muslims usualy sniff the radical ones out and just distance themselves.</p>
<p>Musilms should be extra vigilant and guard their tongues and actions.</p>
<p>I dont know why we should trust security services or agencies anymore, if they do not trust us and clearly want to entrap people.</p>
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		<title>By: SaqibSaab</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10065</link>
		<dc:creator>SaqibSaab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10065</guid>
		<description>May Allah protect us. It&#039;s a a bit scary, but it&#039;s nice to have a &quot;heads up&quot; guide for potential signs and what not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May Allah protect us. It&#39;s a a bit scary, but it&#39;s nice to have a &#8220;heads up&#8221; guide for potential signs and what not.</p>
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		<title>By: London</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10063</link>
		<dc:creator>London</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10063</guid>
		<description>SubhanAllah. When I was in London, we also had an &#039;enthusiastic convert&#039;, who everyone was so excited about but slowly the brothers started to distance themselves from him. I never understood why, I just thought perhaps they didn&#039;t like his personality, but then one of the brothers told me that they had many reasons to believe that he wasn&#039;t genuine. Allahu A3lam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SubhanAllah. When I was in London, we also had an &#39;enthusiastic convert&#39;, who everyone was so excited about but slowly the brothers started to distance themselves from him. I never understood why, I just thought perhaps they didn&#39;t like his personality, but then one of the brothers told me that they had many reasons to believe that he wasn&#39;t genuine. Allahu A3lam.</p>
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		<title>By: Suhaib Webb</title>
		<link>http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/watch-for-the-violence-mongers-mosque-informants-agent-provocateurs-and-disruption-in-the-muslim-american-community/comment-page-1/#comment-10062</link>
		<dc:creator>Suhaib Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suhaibwebb.com/blog/?p=3633#comment-10062</guid>
		<description>Asalamu alaykum,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This reminds me when what the Ogs told me when I was in the streets: &quot;Wax! Look out for the loudest, most reckless, fly cats. The one&#039;s with the most gold, nicest cars and most talk, are the one&#039;s that will get you in the most trouble. Underneath that gold and those D&#039;s is a recorder.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Muslim youth need to be careful of the tough talking jihadi cats in our communities. Most of them are agents looking for their green cards. Romanticized notions of grandeur have long since been used to manipulate and play youngsters. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;SDW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asalamu alaykum,</p>
<p>This reminds me when what the Ogs told me when I was in the streets: &#8220;Wax! Look out for the loudest, most reckless, fly cats. The one&#39;s with the most gold, nicest cars and most talk, are the one&#39;s that will get you in the most trouble. Underneath that gold and those D&#39;s is a recorder.&#8221;</p>
<p>Muslim youth need to be careful of the tough talking jihadi cats in our communities. Most of them are agents looking for their green cards. Romanticized notions of grandeur have long since been used to manipulate and play youngsters. </p>
<p>SDW</p>
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