Comments on: Is it Better to Avoid the Mubah? http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah audio, discussions, translations and musings Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:18:06 -0700 hourly 1 By: Suhaib Webb http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13745 Suhaib Webb Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:37:24 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13745 Asalamu alaykum, When looking at any hadith scholars of usol divided it into: Sihah- The strength of the hadith- is it sahih, hassan or da’if. Ihtiyaj- Using it as proof in religious matters So, for example, a hadith might be sound, but cannot be used as proof. A good example is the sound narrations of Anas regarding the Basmallah. The Maliks contend that while the narrations are sound in sanad, they are inconsistent in their wording. This means that their sihah is accepted, but, they are not acceptable for ihtiyaj (proof). Now, of course the Shafi's differ, but I was only using that for the sake of an example. What one can garner from this is that the often quoted statement, "If you find a sound hadith, it is my madhab" does not apply to non-scholars but needs to be understood under the wider lens of academic rigor.. Ibn ‘Arabis contention surrounds the language of the hadith, thus while he contends that it is sound, he states that its ihtiyaj in prohibiting music is not. SDW Asalamu alaykum,

When looking at any hadith scholars of usol divided it into:

Sihah- The strength of the hadith- is it sahih, hassan or da’if.

Ihtiyaj- Using it as proof in religious matters

So, for example, a hadith might be sound, but cannot be used as proof. A good example is the sound narrations of Anas regarding the Basmallah. The Maliks contend that while the narrations are sound in sanad, they are inconsistent in their wording. This means that their sihah is accepted, but, they are not acceptable for ihtiyaj (proof). Now, of course the Shafi’s differ, but I was only using that for the sake of an example.

What one can garner from this is that the often quoted statement, “If you find a sound hadith, it is my madhab” does not apply to non-scholars but needs to be understood under the wider lens of academic rigor..

Ibn ‘Arabis contention surrounds the language of the hadith, thus while he contends that it is sound, he states that its ihtiyaj in prohibiting music is not.

SDW

]]> By: Abu Adam http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13727 Abu Adam Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:00:08 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13727 "Another scholar of note who took Ibn Hazim’s position, while maintaining that the hadiths were sound, was Qadi Abu Bakir ibn ‘Arabi. He held that the hadith was sound, but from the point of ihtiyaj it was weak in prohibiting music." Please explain more particularly the meaning of ihtiyaj. “Another scholar of note who took Ibn Hazim’s position, while maintaining that the hadiths were sound, was Qadi Abu Bakir ibn ‘Arabi. He held that the hadith was sound, but from the point of ihtiyaj it was weak in prohibiting music.”

Please explain more particularly the meaning of ihtiyaj.

]]> By: Dawud Israel http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13698 Dawud Israel Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:48:50 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13698 EDIT: ...especially when the discussion is as definitive and as nearing conclusive as this is. -Dawud EDIT:
…especially when the discussion is as definitive and as nearing conclusive as this is.

-Dawud

]]> By: Dawud Israel http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13697 Dawud Israel Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:28:59 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13697 Dear Sh. Suhaib and WebbStaff, As a blogger, I strongly suggest another piece based on the fruits of this discussion (music, circumcision) and tying it in with this post on Mubah. This is very relevant and quite overlooked. One of the best methods of blogging (and teaching!) is to build off of previous work, so reader understanding can grow organically rather than being forced to suddenly shift because of an online debate...gradual teaching, not forceful, rigid and stuttering/disconnected pieces hold the most promise for expanding our outlook on the deen. Just my humble 2 cents. -Dawud Dear Sh. Suhaib and WebbStaff,

As a blogger, I strongly suggest another piece based on the fruits of this discussion (music, circumcision) and tying it in with this post on Mubah. This is very relevant and quite overlooked. One of the best methods of blogging (and teaching!) is to build off of previous work, so reader understanding can grow organically rather than being forced to suddenly shift because of an online debate…gradual teaching, not forceful, rigid and stuttering/disconnected pieces hold the most promise for expanding our outlook on the deen.

Just my humble 2 cents.

-Dawud

]]> By: Haq http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13693 Haq Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:37:22 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13693 SubhanAllah, look at the balance and Justice of Imam Shawkhani, May Allah bless him and grant him the highest of stations in Jannah. SubhanAllah, look at the balance and Justice of Imam Shawkhani, May Allah bless him and grant him the highest of stations in Jannah.

]]> By: Haq http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13692 Haq Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:36:25 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13692 I think it made this article more interesting lol I think it made this article more interesting lol

]]> By: Abu Muawiyah http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13685 Abu Muawiyah Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:14:52 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13685 Imam Shawkhani wrote an important book on this issue entitled “Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa” which means “refuting the claim of consensus on the general prohibition of music” in which he lists the various views and proofs that scholars have on this issue. Bear in mind that Imam Shawkhani wrote this book despite being of the opinion that musical instruments are prohibited so that people do not go to extremes in dealing with those who hold to the view of permissibility. Imam Shawkhani said at the end of this book, “There is no doubt after all the views and proofs that we have mentioned that music is from amongst the doubtful issues and believers should be wary regarding the doubtful issues as is narrated in Saheeh Bukhari, “Whoever leaves the doubtful issues has protected his honour and his religion,” (Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa p:59) Imam Shawkhani also states, “Allah knows that we do not sit at the gatherings of music…but we mentioned this from the point of view of evidence…so that it becomes clear that this is not an issue in which one can claim that the followers of a certain opinion are misguided, rather how can those who claim that there is no difference of opinion regarding the issue of music be guided to the path of justice?” (Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa p: 52) Imam Shawkhani wrote an important book on this issue entitled “Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa” which means “refuting the claim of consensus on the general prohibition of music” in which he lists the various views and proofs that scholars have on this issue. Bear in mind that Imam Shawkhani wrote this book despite being of the opinion that musical instruments are prohibited so that people do not go to extremes in dealing with those who hold to the view of permissibility.

Imam Shawkhani said at the end of this book, “There is no doubt after all the views and proofs that we have mentioned that music is from amongst the doubtful issues and believers should be wary regarding the doubtful issues as is narrated in Saheeh Bukhari, “Whoever leaves the doubtful issues has protected his honour and his religion,” (Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa p:59)

Imam Shawkhani also states, “Allah knows that we do not sit at the gatherings of music…but we mentioned this from the point of view of evidence…so that it becomes clear that this is not an issue in which one can claim that the followers of a certain opinion are misguided, rather how can those who claim that there is no difference of opinion regarding the issue of music be guided to the path of justice?” (Ibtaal Dawatul Ijma Alaa Tahrim Mutlaqis Simaa p: 52)

]]> By: Marya http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13683 Marya Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:56:42 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13683 It's from flikr.com/creativecommons. It's a beautiful image, don't remember exactly what it's of. It’s from flikr.com/creativecommons. It’s a beautiful image, don’t remember exactly what it’s of.

]]> By: Dawud Israel http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13682 Dawud Israel Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:39:55 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13682 Excellent piece and really interesting discussion. I know this isn't exactly related but can I get some information on the image in the post? Its really beautiful to say the least... Jazaka Allahu khayran Excellent piece and really interesting discussion.

I know this isn’t exactly related but can I get some information on the image in the post? Its really beautiful to say the least…

Jazaka Allahu khayran

]]> By: talwar http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/is-it-better-to-avoid-the-mubah/comment-page-1/#comment-13679 talwar Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:46:54 +0000 http://www.suhaibwebb.com/?p=7007#comment-13679 JazakAllah khair to all those who replied and enriched the discussion. I was aware of Imam Ghazali's opinion but heard that he restricted the usage of music to calling people to Allah? I didn't know what the Úd was, google seems to suggest it is a string instrument that looks like a guitar. It would be interesting to know which of the sahaba played that.. I can understand that there is no ijma' on this issue, but then the issues where there is ijma would be extremely few anyway and difficult to prove - so that in of itself may not add a lot of weight to the view that music is permissible? From a fiqh learning perspective, it surprises me is that there are issues - such as that of Music - where the 4 madhabs are united on it's prohibition but some may view the other minority opinion as a valid one? Shouldn't the unity of the madhabs on any given issue send warning bells and a big arrow that this, perhaps, is the most correct opinion? Are there many issues like this? JazakAllah khair to all those who replied and enriched the discussion.

I was aware of Imam Ghazali’s opinion but heard that he restricted the usage of music to calling people to Allah?

I didn’t know what the Úd was, google seems to suggest it is a string instrument that looks like a guitar. It would be interesting to know which of the sahaba played that..

I can understand that there is no ijma’ on this issue, but then the issues where there is ijma would be extremely few anyway and difficult to prove – so that in of itself may not add a lot of weight to the view that music is permissible?

From a fiqh learning perspective, it surprises me is that there are issues – such as that of Music – where the 4 madhabs are united on it’s prohibition but some may view the other minority opinion as a valid one? Shouldn’t the unity of the madhabs on any given issue send warning bells and a big arrow that this, perhaps, is the most correct opinion?

Are there many issues like this?

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