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I get some interesting looks when I suggest that the physical barrier that was recently put up between brothers and sisters for Jum`ah at my school be taken down. They probably think it is odd that a bearded, refreshingly conservative, practicing Muslim brother would dare suggest that there be nothing but chairs separating the brothers and sisters during the khutbah and salah. But I have good reasons.
It began last year, when the older generation of our MSA was completely phased out when the last few students who participated in the “glory years” finished their degrees and graduated. Then, a new group of brothers and sisters took the reins and inherited the responsibility of leading one of the largest Muslim student organizations in the State, if not the country.
For the most part, the new Shura (Council) kept with tradition in most practices of the previous MSA. The prior Council’s success with establishing such a large Muslim body on campus was proof that they were doing things right. So, it was a no-brainer to stick with what they did. There were a few things, however, that changed. One of them was the issue of setting up a barrier for our Friday prayer to physically separate the men from the women. This barrier, I was told, was to protect the khateeb from seeing the women while he was speaking, so he can focus and control his gaze. This was a more intense measure than what the previous MSA Council did; they usually lined up a row of chairs to designate and distinguish the men’s section from the women’s.
“Modesty,” you say, “is an important value in Islam, AbdelRahman. Shouldn’t you be a proponent of a tall physical barrier to promote ideals of modesty?”
That’s a great question, reader. I definitely support modesty between men and women in Islam, most definitely. But this situation is a bit different.
Anyone who has taken a speech class – scratch that, anyone who has ever talked to another human being knows that not all aspects of communication are verbal. When we talk, we may or may not make facial gestures, hand motions, and other physical movements to help get our point across. In fact, studies show that 70% of communication is rooted in something called paralanguage: an auxiliary form of communication that includes everything except speech. In this specific example, the aspect of paralanguage that is most important is called kinesics — more commonly referred to as body language. Putting it in simple terms, the motions a speaker makes during his speech directly improves or worsens the delivery of his message.
Do you see where I am going with this?
When I had presented this concern to the brothers who coordinate the Jum`ah khutbahs at my school, one of their responses was a small retort that shocked my ears and saddened my heart. With an uninterested face, he replied, “it’s not even obligatory for them to come anyways.”
In an event as important and essential as the Friday khutbah, we cannot compromise the effectiveness and impact that it can have on any of the attendees, and that includes the sisters. In fact, the sisters may be more important attendees in certain cases than the brothers. The average brother, though he may not realize it, has many more opportunities to interact with Islamic scholars, teachers, and personalities than the average sister does. For most sisters, the Jum`ah khutbah is the only time they can attend a direct discourse from a respected speaker, outside of conventions and special programs that come every so often.
Why have we adopted this mentality that “the sisters don’t matter, because they don’ t have to come anyways”? Just cover them up and let them stay in the kitchen and give birth to children. The message we are sending our sisters — the mothers of our kids, the mothers of our Ummah –- is that their jobs are menial at best. These same brothers who feel the need to unnecessarily force women behind a blanket are also those who complain most about the onslaught of liberalism and feminism against our sisters. If they would only realize that their unnecessary repression of Muslim women is a direct cause of the future mothers of our Ummah lashing out in rebellion. There is a balance we must achieve, however fine the line may be.
Living in America — and now more than ever – it is essential that we provide as many educational and social opportunities to our sisters as possible, and this includes the Friday khutbah. Do not let our sisters be spiritually handicapped by not allowing them to have the full heart-changing experience of a good khutbah. We need to make sure they have full access to receive the complete message on Fridays, to be able to see what is happening so their hearts are energized for the next week — whether it is at home or at work.
But more importantly, let us be careful not to reinforce the idea that sisters are second-class citizens in Islam; that a room with a garbled sound system and terrible ventilation is sufficient for their educational needs. Even more importantly, let us refrain from strengthening the notion that they should not even come to the masjid — because if we do not have strong, educated, spiritual and active sisters in this Ummah, we are in deep trouble.
May Allah guide us towards what is best, and He knows best.
What are your thoughts on the issue? Do you agree? Disagree? I would especially like to get the sisters’ feedback (both for and against the barrier).
Salaam
I have been keeping up with this post and am quite intrigued with some various responses. There has been some very good points brought up by many people. After sitting in the sidelines i wanted to put input in this discussion.
Being a leader of an MSA is a VERY big responsibility, because you are running a large number of people’s islamic affairs. I am only stating this obvious fact because when the leader of the MSA makes a decision he should try his best to follow the sharia because if he fails, then not only is he hurting himself but many other people, and is responsible for them in the DOJ. Once you don’t follow the sharia you open the gate to haram and it can lead to a person to destruction. I believe muslimah stated something about a person staying away from haram and stated staying away from malls parks etc. One scholar was talking about this very thing and saying that we need to stay away from sins and the way to stay away from sins is to cut ourselves from the thing that can lead us to sin. For example, you shouldn’t buy a iPod if you know you struggle with listening to music. Your intention might be halal, quran lectures etc., but shaitan can easily push you over the edge and instead of listening to sudais, you might be listening to 50 cent or something like that. You shouldn’t put yourself in a place which can lead to haram. Because this, due to our nafs and shaitan, can push us towards haram. So if your problem is that you look at things you shouldn’t, dont go to the mall or store on a sunday afternoon in the summer. Hopefully we can benefit from this and we can leave whatever haram we are struggling with.
So as an MSA we should stop the haram at its track before it can damage someone.
The only way a person will be guided is through number one halal means. Sometimes we think by doing something against the sharia we are doing someone a favor. But it is the opposite. If we think we shouldnt put up a partition because it will turn some ppl away from jummah or any event then we are wrong. We are going to be responsible in the day of judgement for all these ppl that come to MSA events. So we should try to have a place in which we can minimize the interaction between the opposite gender. What happens after the event is beyond our hands but in the event it is all in the hands of the MSA.
The only way a person is guided is because of Allah (SWT) and Allah (SWT) alone. No passionate speaker can do anything to a person’s spiritual heart unless Allah (swt) guides his servant. (May ALLAH swt guide all of us to the sharia and to the sunna.) There was this one scholar and through his efforts thousands if not millions of people have came closer to allah (swt). This scholar was anything but a fiery speaker. It is narrated that he tried to say a word 10 times once and the 11th time he just gave up. But due to his concern in his heart he was able to help out thousands. Just read the history of the companions and you will find some amazing ppl that affected hundreds because, not of the way the spoke, but the amount of concern and the ibada’. So regardless of one being able to see the speaker or not one will improve because of the khateebs concern and connection with allah swt. There was times when the students of a scholar werent able to hear their teacher let alone see him.
So I personally think that an MSA should try their best to stop any haram to happen. Women are unfortunately aren’t dressed properly and it is not just women but men. Men sometimes get overlooked but you see so many brothers wearing tight shirts and jeans. Not only are men commanded to lower their gaze but women are too. Once the Prophet (SAWS) was sitting with two of his wives and a blind sahaba knocked on the door. The prophet (SAWS) commanded the two MOTHER OF THE BELIEVERS to do pardah. One responded that he is blind and the prophet (SAWS) asked them if they were blind as well. and they got up and left. So as an MSA where there is so much fitnah, women arent dressing themselves properly, men are doing the same, and so on so forth, it is my opinion that one should put up a pardah to help stop anyone from looking at someone or unfortunately something they shouldnt be looking at. One scholar said that one glance of a non-mahrm is like shaitan taking a poisined arrow and shooting in our hearts. We can get the arrow out but the poison will still be there. One look will last a lifetime.
I have made many mistakes due to my lack of knowledge and the lack of understanding this deen. So if i said anything wrong please correct me and forgive me if i have offended anyone. and Allah (swt) knows best.
Assalamu Alaykum
So first of all, I would like to know where in the Shariah it says that there is supposed to be a pardah, because I believe the fact has been established that the Prophet (S) never even used a barrier during salah. Although you mention that hadith of the Prophet at the end, you are going to have to explain “pardah” a little more. Did Rasul (S) mean to his two wives to literally put a barrier up, like in MSAs, or to put a hijab and a nikab? Aren’t those technically a barrier? Please elaborate on what “Pardah” really means and what exactly the wives did.
Second of all, akhee, all you are talking about is lowering the gaze and being held accountable on the DOJ. You have to understand that being the MSA leader means more than just what happens in Jumaah Salaah: you are responsible for the tarbiyah, the development of the Muslim youth who come to your MSA. Imagine a girl in a mini skirt (lol, don’t really imagine it) coming to Jumaah salah after several years, for the sake of learning something. Let’s say she is really interested in what the khutba will be about, and when she enters, she finds a big barrier in front. What do you think is going to happen? More than likely, she won’t be coming to Jumaah again because she doesn’t feel welcome, she feels restricted. She could have been coming every single week, but because of the barrier, something that is not necessary in MSAs, she stopped coming to Jumaah. What will you say, MSA leader, to Allah (SWT), when he asks you on the DOJ, why you kept the barrier up, despite the fact that the girls are clearly running away from Jumah because of this? Rasul (S) said that if you don’t attend Jumaah salaah for 3 weeks, you are not Muslim. What about all of those girls who left Jumah, all because of a stupid barrier? For every single sister that leaves Jumah salah because of an unnecessary barrier, YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for them.
Now tell me what is more important, gaze or the akhirah of the sisters? When you talk about gaze, you are only thinking about brothers and about yourself. I say this to myself first and foremost. And I say this because I had this mentality too. However, we have to understand that the first revelation revealed to the Prophet (S), iqra, was not just a commandment to read. Allah (SWT) starts out with Iqra, or Read, and in the second ayah, says Proclaim. What does that tell you? Our job is to not only absorb this message of Islam, detailed in the Qu’ran, but also release it to the public. Our job is solely not looking at girls.
As far as for brothers who are looking, then as an MSA leader, you need to, after Jumah salah, make sure to do something that will help keep these bros away from that stuff. Have a halaqa, or go out to eat. I’m telling you right now, if you think a barrier is going to stop guys from looking at girls, think again. Guys are still going to look at girls even after the jumah salah. They are still going to be looking at things that they shouldn’t be looking at at night.
Thirdly, you are saying that it is Allah (SWT)’s will to change people. True. I don’t dispute you in that. But I remember Imam Suhaib Webb saying this in his tafseer of Surah Fatiha. He talked about his teacher at Azhar, who talked about the make up of a Muslim. He said that the Muslim is composed of intellectually superiority, tazkiyah tun nafs, and activism. The proof can be found in the early revelations of the Qur’an. The first revelation called for Rasul (S) and us as an Ummah to gain knowledge (IQRA). The second one, Surah Muzammil, calls Rasul (S) and us “to stand and pray” (Tazkiyah tun Nafs), and the third, in Surah Mudathir, calls for the one to “arise and deliver a warning” (activism). Does this mean do it once and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)? No. It means we need to be active every single day. Proof? Look at the example of Rasul (S). He constantly gave dawaah to his family and people, every single day.
The point that I am trying to get at is that of course saying something once isn’t going to change a Muslim. You need to constantly be involved with these youth. You are a leader, and what is the job of the leader? To lead. Subhanallah, I give major props to Inspired. To be able to take people who were once drug dealers and turn them into great leaders, into Khateebs, that is what Islam is about. Let me remind everyone including myself that Allah (SWT) could have made us those very same people, selling drugs, doing so much haraam. But Allah (SWT) didn’t. He blessed us. Why? So that we can take these very same people and reject them from society? No. He gave us these resources and knowledge so that we can deliver to society. “Let there rise among you a group of people who enjoin the good and forbid the evil.” Do you not think that the circumstances we live in were no different then that of the Prophet (S)”s? Heck no! In fact, it was worse than today. And yet, Rasul (S) still kept preaching and spending time with his people. He never stopped, no matter what.
Now let us look at ourselves. Can we honestly call ourselves Muslims, witnesses to the shahada, when we don’t even act like Muslims, act like the Prophet (S), follow Allah (SWT)? Ask yourselves this: if there are Muslims who are leaving Jumah salah, all because of a stupid barrier, how are you going to justify your actions in front of Allah (SWT)?
Please forgive me if I hurt your feelings. Please forgive me if I offended you guys at all. Wallahi, I love the barrier, and I would like nothing other than the barrier. I understand what you are saying, Wallahi I do. But we have to look at the benefit of the Ummah. We need to put the Ummah before ourselves, that means guys and girls. Otherwise, we will be held accountable for them on the DOJ.
I ask Allah (SWT) to correct me if I am wrong and to please forgive me for anything I said wrong. Anything good that has come out of this discussion is from Allah (SWT), and anything bad has come from myself or the Shaytan.
Assalamu Alaykum
Salaam
I think I may have not stated opinion as clearly as I should have. I am not saying that it is against the sharia to have a pardah or not because some scholars say that it is necessary and some say it is not. Regardless the reason why I believe that we should have one is that this will help stop a person from looking at someone we aren’t suppose to. A barrier will help stop haram from happening. I think everyone can agree to that. Since it can help stop haram, a leader should do his best to look out for the people and stop anyone from doing something thats haram (looking at something we aren’t suppose to).
You are assuming that a person will not come because there is a barrier. You know what they say about a person who assumes (just joking). But honestly you can’t say that a person will stop coming because of a barrier. Some sisters will not come to jummah because there isn’t a barrier. So it can go either way. The girl in mini skirt might think it’s a good idea for the guys not to check her out or whatever. I mean we never know. I know some relatives that don’t go to the masajids where there is no pardah. So it can go either way.
Since the barrier can help stop haram we should do our best effort to have one up. I may be wrong but didnt Umar (RA) prevented women to come to the masjid because they weren’t dressed properly and later only came in the dark (fajr and isha). So more or less it was a way to have a pardah.
So your assuming that a sister will not come because of a pardah. There might be some sisters that will say I’m not going to come because there is a pardah. But there are some other sisters that want a pardah and won’t come because there is not a pardah.
As for your question in the first paragraph, I am not exactly sure of how they did pardah from him. THis hadith is in Abu Dawood and Tirmidhi. But we can understand that they did not see him.
Assalamu alaikum brother Ali,
You have some valid points, but just wanted to point out a couple things:
1.) Are you sure sisters in mini-skirts don’t come to jumu’ah *only* because of the barrier? There may be other reasons as well. As I said above, if the sisters’ room is welcoming (meaning not a dirty, stuffy room), sisters will feel encouraged to come.
2.) As far as I know, the missing-three-jumu’ahs-in-a-row rule is for men only. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Also, I think you may have misunderstood what brother Talib was trying to say. Brothers and sisters may misdirect their gaze at times besides jumu’ah, but letting it happen during jumu’ah is much worse. Jum’uah is a sacred day and time. The leaders of MSAs should try their best to keep it as halal and pure as possible–not think, “ok, they look at other times anyways, what’s the point of the barrier?”
Just a couple of thoughts. No disrespect intended.
The MSA that [I think] AbdelRahman was referring to has finally arrived at a decision.
They decided to place the barriers up. They’re using these big, large, cloth partitions that seem pretty high in terms of height. As to whether they consulted the sisters about this decision or not, I don’t know about it. However, I don’t think they ever bothered to do .
I’m not a scholar. But didn’t the Prophet pbuh talked to women in his time without any barrier? This is quite clear isn’t it? This closed mind, traditional (not religious), and destructive mentality must be abolished from the Muslim World. We need to understand the real message of Islam.
Maybe it’s better to let them erect the barriers, and if there is enough concern over them, then those members of the shura will be voted out in favor of people who are more in tuned with what is wanted.
On the other hand, if they or others like them remain, then the opposite – this is what is wanted, and it will continue, insha’Allah.
I’d say, leave it to the MSA board, and voice your disagreement either directly (and politely) through discussion, and through the ballot box of the MSA elections if need be.
Siraaj
@ Br. Siraaj,
I don’t know if everything will go as you say. It would be nice if it did, but I don’t know if it will. When issues like this show up, most people don’t seem to speak up about it. In fact, at the MSA that AbdelRahman was talking about, as far as I know, the only people to speak up were those in support of the barrier. These brothers that were behind the idea of the barrier have beards and wear thobes/shalwar-kameez and etc. and so, because of their physical appearance, are considered religious by most people that see them. I’m not questioning their religiosity or anything here, but I’m just letting you know that this is how people think. If they see someone the looks (stereotypically) religious, then they assume that they (in actuality) are religious.
Because these people appear religious, some people will blindly accept whatever comes out of their mouth and sometimes will consider their words to be the words of Allah (swt). It is for this reason that, in my opinions, there were a bunch of people at our MSA that just blindly accepted what they had to say. What I’m trying to say here is that within every MSA, there is always a large group of people that are like the “masses.” They blindly go along with anything the MSA does, and do not question anything because they don’t seem to know any better. Often times, these people get affected by various things that the Shura will do but they will do nothing about it.
As for changing the Shuras, the fact here is that Shura elections are often popularity contests. Some MSAs obviously have more of a problems with this issue than others but to some exent, most MSA’s are affected by this, one way or another. It is for these reason that those brothers that are thought of as being “religious” get to make it into the Shura.
Assalaamualaikum, jazakAllah khair brother for bringing up this important issue.
I went to a masjid to hear Imam Suhaib Webb this summer and one of the things he applauded the masjid for was not having the sisters hiding in what he called “Guantanamo Bay” I believe. That was the first time I really thought about the issue. It was something I just kinda got used to. And it made me feel really good that people cared about and were thinking about such things. May Allah bless Imam Suhaib & his family. Ameen.
So I read the post and most of the comments, here are my thoughts:
-TVs for sisters is honestly really annoying to me. I can just watch a lecture on my computer if that’s the case, you know? Also, when there’s like a whole separate room for sisters like on a separate floor or something. There’s usually a lot of kids there making noise, and people that basically didn’t come to listen to the lecture. It becomes nearly impossible to listen to the lecture.
-For me the best thing is the sisters being behind the brothers with a barrier that opens up in the middle so that those who want to, can see the shaykh and any blackboard/presentation he may have going on.
-At our jummah, we don’t have a barrier, but the room is shaped so weirdly that it’s kind of a natural barrier. It works well alhamdulillah
-I think in a lot of ways, it depends on the community. I’ve been in a very small mosque sitting behind brothers with no divider and felt completely comfortable because the community was like a family. No brother even looked at a sister except to say salaam or pass her a book or paper for the class,etc. I know in some places, I feel a lot more comfortable if there is some sort of a divider, because the brothers walk in, check out the sisters and THEN sit down. lol may Allah save us.
-TOTALLY agree about the speakers tho. Honestly, the whole ummah needs to fix their speakers lol.
- I think it’s a good idea to find out what the sisters in your MSA think. Maybe have an online poll? Would be funny if you were fighting to save them but really, they loved the barrier
Thanks again,
salaam!
If that’s the case, then I’d say it’s better not to get people up in arms about something no one is really caring too much about. You may not always agree with your shura’s decisions, but let’s get real here, there are MSAs that openly flaunt the worst behavior in the world, and we’re coming down on brothers who took an opinion from scholars they trust.
They were nominated and elected, and if anyone cared enough about the issue, these brothers would not be so in the next election. I’m a firm believer in actions and not excuses. If people don’t want to critically evaluate what these brothers are doing, and these brothers are not doing something haraam necessarily, then this type of discussion is counterproductive to the overarching goals an MSA needs to achieve in a given year. As I had mentioned before, these side issues will simply pull people away and consume energy (as it is right now) on discussions that don’t serve the Muslim or nonMuslim community at large on campus.
As I said, if it’s that bad, if people are truly being harmed by it, then they ought to speak up – we’re ultimately responsible for ourselves. If we don’t take responsibility for ourselves, then that’s by choice, not force. The very essence that makes us responsible before Allah subhaana wa ta’aala is that we have the free will to make decisions, even in the face of all the conditioning and environmental (over)stimulus we encounter.
Siraaj
Save the sisters -Yeh, by keeping our barriers up
Siraaj said “I’m a firm believer in actions and not excuses. If people don’t want to critically evaluate what these brothers are doing, and these brothers are not doing something haraam necessarily, then this type of discussion is counterproductive to the overarching goals an MSA needs to achieve in a given year.”
JazakaAllah khair for the great advice, bro. I always find your posts full of wisdom and lessons.
Good comment brother Siraj. JazakaAllah Khair for the advice. May Allah (SWT) Reward you.
Some claim that a barrier is biddah. Correct me if I am wrong but we should follow the sunna of the prophet and the one after him (companions). Especially the four khalifas after the prophet (SAWS). And didnt Umar (RA) forbid women from coming to the mosque. And when the ladies complained to Ayesha (RA) she said that this action was in the bounds of the sharia and not biddah. So the pardah is more or less like the action of Umar. I may be wrong correct me with hikmah if I am.
But brother Siraj tore it up nonetheless.
These few hadith are not placed for us to comment on or say ‘great post’. These are solely for reflection on what we say. Do not use these hadith for ‘your’ argument for or against what you ‘think’ is right. Rather control your tongues on things you don’t have hikmah or wisdom upon and please don’t be ignorant. Brother Suhaib Webb has established this site not for the purpose of argument but his intention, I believe… and he can correct me if I’m wrong… is to bring only khair and goodness into our BLESSED lives.
Narrated Anas (Allah be pleased with him): The fact which stops me from narrating a great number of Hadiths to you is that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever tells a lie against me intentionally, then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire.
(Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 1).
No judge must give judgement between two people when he is angry.
(Bukhari, Muslim).
The man who is most hateful to God is the one who quarrels and disputes most. (Bukhari, Muslim).
Do you know the thing which most commonly brings people into paradise? It is fear to God and good character. Do you know what most commonly brings people to hell? It is the hollow things; the mouth and the private parts.
(Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah).
Coarse talk does not come into anything without disgracing it, and modesty does not come into anything without adorning it.
(Tirmidhi).
If you guarantee me six things on your part, I shall guarantee you paradise: speak the truth when you talk, keep a promise when you make it, when you are trusted with something fulfil your trust, avoid sexual immorality, lower your eyes and restrain your hand from injustice.
(Baihaqi).
Avoid envy, for envy devours good deeds just as fire devours fuel.
(Abu Dawud).
“Believers are to one another like a building whose parts support one other.” He then interlaced his fingers.
(Bukhari, Muslim).
That which is lawful is plain and that which is unlawful is plain and between the two if them are doubtful matters about which not many people know. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honour, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around the sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibitions. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if diseased, all of it is diseased. Truly it is the heart.
(Bukhari, Muslim).
What I have forbidden to you, avoid; what I have ordered you [to do], do as much of it as you can. It was only their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their Prophets that destroyed those who were before you.
(Bukhari, Muslim).
Allah the Almighty has laid down religious duties, so do not neglect them; He has set boundaries, so do not overstep them; He has prohibited some things, so do not violate them; about some things He was silent out of compassion for you, not forgetfulness, so seek not after them.
(Daraqutni)
Narrated Abdullah bin Amr bin Al As (Allah be pleased with him): I heard Allah’s Apostle (peace be upon him) saying: “Allah does not take away the knowledge by taking it away from (the hearts of) the people, but takes it away by the death of the religious learned men till when none of the (religious learned men) remains, people will take as their leaders ignorant persons who when consulted will give their verdict without knowledge. So they will go astray and will lead people astray.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 1).
Ibn Masud reported the Messenger of Allah as saying: “A woman is an object of concealment for when she goes out the devil presents her in alluring looks before men.”
(Tirmidhi).
A time will come to mankind when man will not care whether what he gets comes from a lawful or an unlawful source.
(Bukhari).
Do not ask for any high office, for if you are given it after asking, you will be left to discharge it yourself; if you are given it without asking you will be helped to discharge it.
(Bukhari, Muslim).
Woe to him who tells things, speaking falsely, to make people laugh thereby! Woe to him! Woe to him!
(Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Darimi).
Sufyan bin Abdullah ath Thaqafi told when he asked God’s messenger what he feared most for him, he took hold of his tongue and said, “This.”
(Tirmidhi).
When a man tells something and then departs it is trust. (What he told should be treated confidential).
(Muslim).
The things which I said were at the beginning of the post so those are between you ie. the readers and me. However, the hadith themselves are intended for the sake of knowledge and amal or actions/implementations of that knowledge. There they[hadith] are written in truth.
Assalamu Alaykum
Siraj, I think, has the best response to this question about the barrier. The last one that he wrote.
I don't know the right answer to this dilemma (if it is one) as I don't think I have sufficient knowledge on this topic. However, I thought I would point out the following flaw in the article….
The Quran commands both genders to lower their gazes. So I think it can be safely implied that we aren't supposed to sit around and analyze the opposite gender's body language in order to accurately understand what he or she is trying to communicate. Have you heard the hadith about the first glace being forgiven…and voluntary subsequent gazes being disallowed? If yes, then how can it be said that paying attention to a speaker's body language is all right and essential?
And seriously, from a Muslim woman's perspective do you think the haya-ful females of the Muslim Ummah would feel comfortable with the possibility that the movements of their bodies are being analyzed by the Muslims brothers while they are talking? That would be a really creepy situation to be in, to say the least.
Also, please remember that Allah has effectively communicated to us through the Quran and the Quran in its current 'primary' form is a textual document (there is no audio or video to it). I don't think most of us feel the need to look at Allah or even the Prophet (sa) in order to accurately understand what the Holy book is saying.
Finally, whenever religious matters are discussed the points that are being argued for should be backed up by evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah as these sources of evidence supersede any sort of para-lingual (or any other kind of human discovered) “evidence”.
Salam,
Most of Kinesics, body language, is picked up subconsciously. For example, when you walk down a busy road, why do you think that you don't run into the people streaming down the road in the opposite direction? Studies have shown that you actually, subconsciously, drop the shoulder in the direction that you are going and the person across from you picks that up and drops his/her shoulder in the opposite direction and that's why you don't run into each other. You can test this yourself by dropping the shoulder in one direction and then moving in the opposite one. You're almost guaranteed to run in the person walking your way.
I applaude your Haya, but without me looking at you I can feel your “aura”. Try walking into a room where people are upset and see how that brings you down or vice versa.
Nomad78
Gr8! So if it’s picked up subconsciously, then that means there is no necessity to look at a person when he/she is talking.
And just for the sake of argument, I don’t think anyone can sense the aura of properly veiled Muslim woman. Her clothing would be too loose to offer any info on that matter!
–unless you are talking at the nano level.
Vaginal discharge, especially if it also accompanied by Vaginal Odor is probably bacterial vaginosis.
Look man if don’t have Islamic evidence to prove the wall should go down then you need to reconsider the facts that exposure of my family to the men of my community is unacceptable nor do i want to view my brothers family. I do believe that if a woman wants to go to the masjid no one can say anything and i recommended to sisters who’s husbands don’t deliver them knowledge to go and seek it. I don’t have any evidence to support that so I won’t make more then it is.
Also we at our Masjid have a wall and do not mix male and female. however we have a camera hooked up into the main area with TV for the women to watch what is going on if you want to use that excuse for not having a wall. Also the nabi sallahu ahlihim to my understanding did not stand straight in front of women when he would talk to them in jamma he would turn half way as to not look directly at them if this is right and true then that is where your heart should be if I am wrong i ask you to forgive me and correct me so i don’t repeat this if it is an error
and Allah the most high knows best
I am sorry i don’t have the exact detail for my understanding the only thing i have is to listen to Ahmed Ali this strong human and listen to his work this is where i got the info from and i love Ahmed Ali for the sake of Allah and for the knowledge he passed on to inshAllah khair may Allah forgive you and make dua for me inshAllah